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Blogger’s Note: Lately, there have been several discussion topics about the C vs. V again.
Now; I am neither the conscience nor the moderator for this website, but I can tell you that those members that are using this forum to voice their displeasure over a perceived “snub” by other firefighters clearly don’t understand how to navigate the website or to do a search for this topic, for if they did, they would find reams on this topic. So, my goal is for this to be the END ALL blog on this petty but rather disruptive perception.

What gives any of us the right to feel or believe that we are entitled to be called a firefighter?

For some of us, we have held a steady job, been married, are raising children, are helping with community projects in our small, rather rural communities and all the while, we have been thinking about joining the local fire department to help out…so we do!

We are interviewed, accepted and are issued gear, along with a pager. Does this entitle us to call ourselves “firefighter” or to be regarded by others as a firefighter?

For others, getting on a paid fire department has been in the family for four generations and has been your childhood dream. It’s never been an option; it has been your destiny. Your goal is to serve in a large city where history has been witness to some monumental fires and extraordinary firefighters.

We get our name on the hiring list, go through the testing including CPAT, complete our interview and get confirmation that we have been hired. Does this entitle us to call ourselves “firefighter” or to be regarded by others as a firefighter?

It occurs to me after joining this website that there is a “Who’s Who” of current and former firefighters who are offering up a plethora of information on a wide range of subject matter. The training articles are second to none and the authors are likewise. The author’s style and tone of their articles do not discriminate nor differentiate between career, paid on call or volunteer firefighters. It is information that anyone who wants to improve their skills as a firefighter can do so. Do you think the authors of the blogs, news articles or training articles even care about what TYPE of firefighter you are? Oh sure; there will be articles on rural water supply that may only apply to a rural, volunteer department, but on the flip side, you will see articles on aerial truck operations that are interesting to guys like me, but are targeting metro firefighters. We can’t leave out our friends in wildland firefighting. They engage in some highly specialized tactics that warrant their own niche as well.

Did I say “type of firefighter”? I certainly did.

All MEN/WOMEN are created equal. Firefighters are NOT!

This may be contrary to what you believe or have been told, but it is an educated opinion that is supported by years of personal observation. We have seen nicely choreographed illustrations from authors who have been on both sides of the spectrum. They have been career firefighters who have gone on to volunteer. We have also seen the other swing where volunteer firefighters have become career. In both cases, the firefighter is taking SOMETHING from where they came to where they’re going. It might just be oodles of experience and the respect that experience will earn you with your peers.

Why does it matter so much to want respect or acknowledgement or acceptance from people that you don’t even know? Why would you presume to even EXPECT respect from someone that you don’t know, because isn’t one of the pillars of respect built on knowing the person or at least knowing something about the person? In my mind, you are being disrespectful by immediately wanting respect simply because you are on a fire department. When these people have not seen us perform our tasks, then how can we expect them to measure us all the way to a level of respect? We can’t and we shouldn’t, because it is wrong and very frustrating for those who don’t understand. The bottom line here is: if you are sitting there believing that you deserve it, then you aren't doing anything to earn it and if you don't earn it; you won't get it.

And on the other side of the coin, how can we say that we are the SAME as they are if we haven’t seen them perform their tasks, which are only in our realm of basic skills until they go to academy and start riding the trucks. It changes right then and there. We are no longer the same. Numbers of calls and time spent in classes and training cans DOES change all of that. However; this alone isn't a free pass to respect.

For me, it has never been about puffing my chest out around the paid guys. When I got my FF II certification, I knew that I was better for taking the training, but didn’t bother to gauge it against a career firefighter. It didn’t occur to me and frankly, it didn’t matter. I was trying to raise the bar for our fire department. As we progressed, so did respect between us, because we realized that our training would help hone our skills and keep us sharp. Respect could be measured in the amount of training that you did or didn’t do.

And with regards to training outside of the department with other departments? It was done with the intentions of LEARNING and not whether career guys were busting on us. It was about doing it right or doing it wrong and having to do it again. And if you had to do it again, then you shouldn’t complain that you were being picked on, but rather, shut up and do it right. What; because you are in turnout gear, you are entitled to get a free pass? You think that’s respect?

I want to see an end to the career/vollie debate. We all know what we are capable of doing. We know if we have the right to call ourselves “firefighters” and to have the privilege to wear the gear and to serve our communities. We cannot take anything for granted; least of all training and our interactions with other departments on a mass incident.

As far as respect?

Worry about getting it from your kids, your fire department and your community first. That should be all that matters anyway.

Then, you can look at how you measure up with others who are in the fire service. Use it to weigh your strengths and weaknesses, then share your strengths and strengthen your weaknesses. If you set out like you have nothing to prove and conduct yourself with a reserved and quiet humility, respect will sneak up on you before you know it. You may not hear it, but you WILL feel it.

Ask yourself if you want to be the same as all of the other firefighters or do you want to be different?

Dare to be different!

Tell yourself that you’re entitled to pursue the possibilities that exist in becoming the best firefighter that you can be for your family and your community.

Respect the honor, tradition, history and the dangers associated with firefighting.

Work on your life-saving skills and forget about saving the world.

Study hard and train hard. Word will spread. Respect will grow.

There you go; all because you dared to be different!

TCSS.
Art

This article is protected by federal copyright laws under The Adventures of Jake and Vinnie© umbrella. It cannot be reproduced in any form without the expressed permission of Art Goodrich aka ChiefReason. Visit me at www.chiefreasonart.com.

Tags: career, chiefreason, firefighter, respect, volunteer

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FETC Comment by FETC on September 18, 2009 at 1:32am
Gregg, thanks for the reply and seeing you jumped into this forum without understanding the previous thread that was actually removed, I must state that my personal response to Chief Reason ruffled your feathers. It has nothing to do with this specific blog. And from the response I got from Chief Reason, it appeared he either accepted or agreed to disagree on my personal opinion.

It was a response to this specific author and I was not looking to make you feel better at what you do. But if that is what needs to happen to keep webchief happy... I see your less than a year in the fire service and a volunteer, thats great! Thanks for your time and effort and I am sure, your calling will be more noble, respectful and done with a kinder heart than mine.
Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich Comment by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on September 17, 2009 at 10:46am
WP:
You'd better hurry.
A new C vs. V just popped up in the Blog section.
Get it while the getting's good.
:-)
Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich Comment by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on September 16, 2009 at 10:51pm
As I do not want to be the first blog in this website's history to be shut down, I will ask everyone to stay on point and if you take exception to someone's comment, either ask for more explanation or agree to disagree.
Please keep in mind that this is the Blog section and not a discussion forum.
I always encourage comments and even comments on comments, as long as it's civil and respectful.
There is a reason why the discussion thread on the topic is gone and the blog is still up.
Thanks to everyone who have read the blog and commented.
TCSS.
Art
gregg robert Comment by gregg robert on September 16, 2009 at 10:09pm
fetc
i can't beleive you pulled the poor me working christmas line lmao. theres police, doctors, nurses, city plow guys for petes sake working christmas. you need to read your post an tell me how that makes a vol. feel any better about what we do. your "example" did not need to be writen
Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich Comment by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on September 16, 2009 at 9:35pm
FETC:
I hear ya. Killing the thread was the humane thing to do.
If ALL firefighters would look inward and remember their humility, there would be NO debate; only ONE, STRONG VOICE for our nation's fire service.
The "legends in their own minds" need to keep their thoughts private and NEVER find a website where they can expound upon how "noble" and "heroic" that they think they are.
When you have to convince yourself that you have "better" or "different" reasons for being a firefighter, then you didn't learn your lessons, didn't listen to your mentors and most certainly didn't grasp the true nature of what is a brotherhood/sisterhood.
Sometimes, when we swallow our pride, we choke on our self-respect.
We cannot continue to alienate each other simply because we choose different career paths or community service.
I firmly believe that the first step towards respecting each other is realizing that we all bring something to the table; however limited; however boundless.
We can’t all be fire service legends like Ray Downey or Brannigan or Brunicini or Goldfeder or Lasky, but we can certainly take their lessons and strive to be the best that we can be wherever we serve.
To do anything less would violate our call to duty and our oath to serve and to protect.
IMHO.
TCSS.
Art
FETC Comment by FETC on September 16, 2009 at 8:16pm
Art,

I will be honest, I pretty much killed that thread along with a little help from another member. Now hear me out... I have refrained from the C vs V debate since joining the "nation". I have been a volunteer, paid on call, part time and a fulltime firefighter throughout my 17 year career. I actually train more now with volunteers than paid firefighters even though I am a career firefighter.

What happened is one of frustration. You see if you have never been a paid firefighter, how can you post your opinion on how your status is more noble, respectful, or done with a kinder heart? That would be like the new kid telling the Chief how to run his fire. They can't because the poster has only experienced one side of the "experience".

Therefore after (6) pages of the usual, one sided responses.... and my partner who jumped in pointed out a point. "How often do you see a paid guy complaining about how a volunteer feels or speaks about him?"

I was waiting for the webchief to pull the plug, didn't happen, why because it remained professional and one-sided. So (6) pages later of "We don't get paid, they only do it for the money, they are sleeping at home off duty when we are up, we do more, train more, because we have less, we should be considered hero because we volunteer, or out of the kindness of our hearts we do it, and I ask for nothing in return, blah, blah, blah.

After (6) pages I decided to professionally explain, my direct experience from both sides of the coin. I work 84 hours a week, multiple jobs, I still respond back to the station when off duty, I had 400 hours of con-ed last year, I work at a department that does 4,000 calls per year, of which I responded on 600 personally, then the kicker... I mentioned the truth that it isn't all just sitting around waiting for calls.

Example: this upcoming Christmas, I will be on-duty working while my three small children are opening Santa's gifts... while my neighboring volunteer department members, (who surround us) will be at home opening gifts with their family and hoping the pager doesn't go off.... Yeah you have to sometimes get up from your family dinner or leave for a "while" on a holiday, I hear ya. Been there done that remember I used to only be a volunteer. So what about all the holidays the paid guys are actually working on? or the kids games we are missing, not to mention plays, recitals, homework assignments, or bedtime stories? The family stressors are the same. The fact of the matter is I chose this line of work and it wasn't for the money brother, it was because like everyone else we want to help people. But if you choose to make it your job, then their is no picking and choosing which calls you are going to respond on and I have seen first hand, the 20% rule of who actually carry the workload in a volunteer department.

If I don't go to work, or decide I am not going on that call my boss, the chief will get rid of me... Bottom line is this, we are all firefighters, some want to be paid, others wish they could be paid and some choose to never get paid.

Who really cares... we are all trained to some level,definately not the same level due to our own personal desires, knowledge and experience levels. But bottom line is this... when someone calls for help and "we" the fire service respond to assist in anyway possible.
Jason Hoevelmann Comment by Jason Hoevelmann on September 16, 2009 at 5:09pm
Thanks Chief Reason. I must have missed that other post. Have great week and keep pumping out the hits.
Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich Comment by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on September 16, 2009 at 3:33pm
Jason:
This blog isn't in response to your April blog.
It was in response to the latest C vs. V discussion thread that I am told has been pulled.
But, I read your blog back then; found it insightful with some new perspective and had no problems with it whatsoever.
I guess I just got grumpy with another birthday looming.
If anyone is looking to get me something, I'd love the Monopoly game-Fire version of course.
TCSS.
Art
Jason Hoevelmann Comment by Jason Hoevelmann on September 16, 2009 at 1:44pm
My original post in April was not intended to create such a stir. Personally, the discussion doesn't bother me, but I see Art's point. The posts got off topic and did not go the direction initially intended. Sorry if it has rubbed some the wrong way, but I thought it would be interesting to see how "promotions" are done in different organizations, especially in combination departments in regards to this particular issue. It was not a v vs. c question, it was a promotion/experience question that was taken too far.

I really thought that it would have long since ended, but it obviously has not. I simply have not responded to the most recent posts because they have not followed the same discussion line initially intended. Anyway, sorry Art, if we pushed your button, no disrespect was intended.
John Kriska Comment by John Kriska on September 16, 2009 at 12:24pm
WestPhilly..Semper-Fi back at you. I agree with you that a volunteer is "noble", however, I have had many negative experiences as a volunteer firefighter and my career cohorts who I served with. I determined that the term "volunteer firefighter" had a negative conotation with them, so I decided that I was going to start referring to myself in a different manner. I believed that I was as professional as they were, therefore I began to identify myself as a "non-paid professional firefighter". For anyone that wants to be a "firefighter", then in my opinion, they must be a professional in all aspects and that includes the department.

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