Firefighting & Rescue Social / Professional Network
30 Minutes a Week of Training is Unfair, "Unreal"...
I had just finished reading a depressing thought I found on facebook by Christopher Naum:
“There’s an awful lot of time, energy and resources being committed and directed towards fire service safety. Is anyone really listening? Does anyone really care?” Are we just running against the wind?
Almost immediately after reading that, I find out that a downstate Illinois fire protection district has a problem. Some of their firefighters do not have the proper qualifications for responding to and working a structure fire.
“I see there are firefighters with zero hours in training,” one trustee said. “Either you are a firefighter or you’re not.”
Most were the older guys, retired, and unable or unwilling to commit the time and energy needed to meet the requirements set forth by the state of Illinois.
According to the Illinois Fire Protection Act, firefighters are required to meet a minimum of 24 hours of training per year.
I did some quick math. My 3rd grade daughter confirmed my calculations. That’s two hours a month. 30 minutes a week.
Tell me there aren’t firefighters out there that are donning equipment with which they are not completely familiar, advancing the wrong size line with the wrong nozzle into a ‘burning box’ just waiting to collapse, unable to recognize the deadly warning signs of a catastrophic fire event for which their equally untrained buddies will have to come in and effect a rescue they are ill-prepared to attempt potentially killing them all.
Please tell me this is a unique situation. TELL ME!
Recognizing the liability of untrained firefighters on the fireground, the trustees of this fire protection district are considering their chief’s proposal to form a second tier of membership- call it an auxiliary role.
Keep the guys active, but don’t put them into a position where they could hurt themselves or others. There are other things these guys could do in a support role.
Sounds like a great idea, right?
You’ve read this far, you earned your payoff:
After the news of the proposed change appeared on the FireRescue1 website, one lonely comment appeared. It’s so bizarre; I’m not quite able to accept that it wasn’t posted as a facetious remark. Here it is, by ‘tommy517’:
“I think it is unreal what law makers are trying to require volunteer firefighters training for responding to calls. I know they feel it is for firefighter safety they come up with some of the stuff, and anything to make it safer is better. However, someone who has done it for years should be given some credit for years of service. I’m a volunteer and I love it. There isn’t anything much better to me than running on fire and rescue calls. I took all the required classes I needed at the time. Now they are wanting to come up with new stuff all the time. When I started I was a student in high school. Now I have a family and work full time. Its hard to get all the “new” trainings that are out there. I wish I had the time to go and take all the new classes and find out what is new in the fire service. With a job and family now its hard to respond to calls sometimes let alone run here and there for classes. Really what has changed? We still gear up get on the truck and put the wet stuff on the red stuff…”
Like he said, “Really, what has changed?’”
Seriously, folks. How many line of duty injuries and worse do we have to endure before this kind of mindset changes?
30 minutes a week…
Jeremy Black has over 30 years of service as a firefighter/paramedic and is the editor of FireDaily.com
“There’s an awful lot of time, energy and resources being committed and directed towards fire service safety. Is anyone really listening? Does anyone really care?” Are we just running against the wind?
Almost immediately after reading that, I find out that a downstate Illinois fire protection district has a problem. Some of their firefighters do not have the proper qualifications for responding to and working a structure fire.
“I see there are firefighters with zero hours in training,” one trustee said. “Either you are a firefighter or you’re not.”
Most were the older guys, retired, and unable or unwilling to commit the time and energy needed to meet the requirements set forth by the state of Illinois.
According to the Illinois Fire Protection Act, firefighters are required to meet a minimum of 24 hours of training per year.
I did some quick math. My 3rd grade daughter confirmed my calculations. That’s two hours a month. 30 minutes a week.
Tell me there aren’t firefighters out there that are donning equipment with which they are not completely familiar, advancing the wrong size line with the wrong nozzle into a ‘burning box’ just waiting to collapse, unable to recognize the deadly warning signs of a catastrophic fire event for which their equally untrained buddies will have to come in and effect a rescue they are ill-prepared to attempt potentially killing them all.
Please tell me this is a unique situation. TELL ME!
Recognizing the liability of untrained firefighters on the fireground, the trustees of this fire protection district are considering their chief’s proposal to form a second tier of membership- call it an auxiliary role.
Keep the guys active, but don’t put them into a position where they could hurt themselves or others. There are other things these guys could do in a support role.
Sounds like a great idea, right?
You’ve read this far, you earned your payoff:
After the news of the proposed change appeared on the FireRescue1 website, one lonely comment appeared. It’s so bizarre; I’m not quite able to accept that it wasn’t posted as a facetious remark. Here it is, by ‘tommy517’:
“I think it is unreal what law makers are trying to require volunteer firefighters training for responding to calls. I know they feel it is for firefighter safety they come up with some of the stuff, and anything to make it safer is better. However, someone who has done it for years should be given some credit for years of service. I’m a volunteer and I love it. There isn’t anything much better to me than running on fire and rescue calls. I took all the required classes I needed at the time. Now they are wanting to come up with new stuff all the time. When I started I was a student in high school. Now I have a family and work full time. Its hard to get all the “new” trainings that are out there. I wish I had the time to go and take all the new classes and find out what is new in the fire service. With a job and family now its hard to respond to calls sometimes let alone run here and there for classes. Really what has changed? We still gear up get on the truck and put the wet stuff on the red stuff…”
Like he said, “Really, what has changed?’”
Seriously, folks. How many line of duty injuries and worse do we have to endure before this kind of mindset changes?
30 minutes a week…
Jeremy Black has over 30 years of service as a firefighter/paramedic and is the editor of FireDaily.com
-
Comment by Jack/dt on November 5, 2009 at 2:21pm - You should move this topic over to the forum side, where the ones that need to think about this are looking. You know, maybe title it "what color (lights, engine, ppe, helmet) do you prefer. That usually gets 'em lathered up.
-
Comment by Ralph L. Carr IV on November 3, 2009 at 5:21pm -
Sigh......
How I read this attitude is.....
I want to drive the BRT (big red truck ) Make noise as I fly thru town, walk around town wearing a cool FD t shirt, don my chared blackin`d turnoput and SHOW OFF to everyone in town that I`M A FIREFIGHTER, make "the sign in sheet" at the fires, take the money at the end of the qtr.....
Yet, NOT ATTEND training cause it cramps my style.......Or, only show for calls that are deemed "cool"..
Never show for work details, never show for training, never show for fundraising....
The rescue I`m on has 10 members. Really only about 6 of us run calls on a regular basis. The chief has a 20% rule. You must participate in 20% of the calls per qtr. If you fail to participate 20% or more for 2 qtrs in a row, you`re out. Now, he does allow for certain situations, vacations, family issues, ect. We don`t have any training, we have to take care of that ourselves. We don`t even have a building, we respond out of our own vehicles. Now, that rule was stressed to me when I joined. I think it`s there to "weed out" whankers or showoffs. This is just a simple rescue agency. Medical, we don`t do tool jobs, ect....
What good is having members on the rolls if they never show? For 19 years I opted out of joining the FD where I lived for the simple fact, my job. My work hours would make it impossable for me to make many training dates at all, let alone catching calls. I was asked ceveral times to join. I just couldn`t justify the dept "wasting training money" on me because I`d hardly be able to make calls.
Just my view...
-
Comment by Jack/dt on November 3, 2009 at 10:16am
-
When someone, anyone, sees training as an unfair, impractical imposition on "volunteers" then you might as well prepare for your first/next LODD.
Where is it written that just because someone has been a volunteer for years that there is nothing new for them to learn? Have they really learned it all? Have they learned anything at all?
If the person writing the quoted comments came from a department that runs 1000+ fire calls every year and personally makes a significant percentage of them then one could at least presume that that person's skill set are up to date, maybe. But for the average VFD I'm betting that they run a lot less calls, see few if any fire calls on a yearly basis and, as Capt 723 points out, the ones they do see are already fully gone. But what about the one that is still in the incipient stage?
Nothing worse than going in and finding out you are totally unprepared for the job. Or that your SCBA is not working or working properly. Or that you've made the wrong decision(s).
Training is, in my opinion, the one thing that most distinguishes the amateur from the professional. Professionals train to stay sharp, increase their skills, learn new techniques, methods, tactics and tools and understand that there is no such thing as too much training. It is the amateur that thinks that too much is too much.
But where does the problem lay? Can you really blame the individual firefighter? In my opinion, no. You have to lay the blame where it belongs, squarely on the shoulders of the Chief of Department. If the person wearing the white hat and all the bugles is really nothing more than the head of the social club then it stands to follow that he will run the department as a social club.
But then again, if a department 'elects' its chief then you got what you voted for. So maybe it's time for the state to step up and increase/enforce the requirements for volunteer fire departments. Unless you have people lobbying for you at the state level that too many requirements are unfair to impose on 'volunteers.'
I guess the bottom line is that if you can't do the time, you can't be on line. If training is "too hard" or you don't "have the time" then maybe you need to re-think your priorities. If you can't or won't train then you shouldn't be a firefighter. What fire departments need are capable, qualified, well trained firefighters, not LODD candidates.
Don't get mad, get better.
Stay safe-ish.
-
Comment by Capt 723 on November 3, 2009 at 9:45am -
Just a few thoughts...
The rural midwest is chock full of small town departments that have this same problem. They might get one or two structures a year and those are probably gone before they get there, probably aren't occupied and if they, are the occupants are either the ones reporting the fire or are goners before the department even rolls out.
Structural firefighting for the departments in the above situation is standing by the engine with a 1 1/2 and spraying on a fully involved structure...looks good for the newspaper but isn't really doing anyone any good. Training for this consists of a case of beer and three or four similar departments getting together to waterball.
Chances are they have at least one SCBA unit that has not been on someone's back in the past year, has an old steel tank that is either out of hydro or is nearing the end of its life and no one on the department will realize this until they take it to their neighbors to get filled and the neighbors won't fill it.
I could go on, but I think you get the picture. Do I have an answer? Maybe, but it is terribly unpopular.
-
Comment by Alan Shaw on November 2, 2009 at 7:42pm -
We will have to endure far too many more LODD's before this attitude changes. Because this attitude it one that for a large part we encourage in our new members. Anytime we set a minimum and then train for that minimum, we are in fact telling people there is no need to exceed that minimum.
Not being from that state, I am basing this on reading the article (on another fire related site) and the replies here. There is a 24 hour requirement, yet some are not meeting it. But there is also an 8 hour requirement which seems to count towards the 24, but be used as an alternative minimum by some departments. Great, get your 8, get your 24, double that to 48 if you want, it still isn't enough.
We need to stop training because we need to and train because we want to. Train because it will make us better at what we do, no matter how good a starting point we have. Train because it will help us stay safe and return home to our families. Train because there is something new and interesting we want to know more about. Train because there is a past topic you don't remember as much about as you would like. However, do not rain because someone else says you have to train for a certain number of hours, because meeting that requirement just isn't enough.
-
Comment by Rusty Mancini on November 2, 2009 at 5:56pm -
This continues to be a problem through out the country. Big Al B. recently was giving an interview and stated fire has change, it burns faster and hotter than it ever has, due to the materials in our world today! If you don't keep up with the changes and do the required training, your putting everyone at risk.
Some folks are still stuck in the past, along with a fast pace social lifestyle and, use every excuse not to keeping one self in tune with training and the changes. Train----Train and Train some more! Be Safe!
-
Comment by Paul Montpetit on November 2, 2009 at 4:51pm
- Don't forget 8 hours of that mandatory training is the annual OSHA training....that leaves only 16 hours left for the year....we get that every month and we are a small rural Department.....By the way...if you don't attend OSHA training...annual fit test and your physical you don't attend ANY Fire Department function or ANY calls at all (EMS or Fire).....Stay safe...Keep the Faith and train as though your life depends on it....because it does.....Paul
-
Comment by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on November 2, 2009 at 2:21pm
-
Yeah; I read this over on your blog this morning, but for some reason, I am having problems posting comments there. When I hit the Post as Guest button, the screen goes black and my comment doesn't get posted.
As a fellow Illinoian, I am keenly aware of the excellent training opportunities offered through our Fire Service Institute.
I also struggle with the weak, insolent excuses offered up by those who don't want to commit to the requirements necessary to stay ahead of the profession.
I went so far as to write this some years ago in response: http://www.firefighternation.com/profiles/blogs/so-you-dont-have-the-time
Though it's not very scientific, it gets my point across.
Glad I'm not the only one.
Art
Sign in
Latest Nation Member Activity
Time to run my first published article again:
CHARGED LINES
by Pete Dawson
"ONLY A VOLUNTEER ?"
Remember the last time you heard someone say " They can't ask us do that. After all, this is only a volunteer fire department." Well it didn't cut it...
Just definitely! Jay!
HELLLLOOOOOOOOO?
FFN eMail Alerts
© 2009 Created by Firefighter Nation WebChief, an Elsevier Public Safety & Go Forward Media, LLC Product - Partners: JEMS Connect - FireRescue - JEMS
• Contact Us: Report an Issue, Inquire About Advertising & Partnerships
This site is intended for use by current and former fire, rescue & EMS professionals. Non emergency service personnel may be subject to review and removal. Using this site inappropriately to spam/advertise or solicit members in any way will result in account termination. Commercial companies may have profiles, but blogs, forums, videos and photos may not be used for self-promotion.
Badges | Contact Firefighter Nation | Privacy | Terms of Service
You need to be a member of Firefighter Nation to add comments!
Join this Ning Network