Equality or even Mutual Respect? Does any one have this?

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Permalink Reply by Emily on May 11, 2008 at 8:44pm

i've learned that you just have to ignore what they say or do. having a woman be able to do the job as good if not better cuts at their pride. i guess it kind of makes men feel masculine. idk. i just prove that i am fit for the job and i can do anything that they can. that is pretty much all you can do...and try to get in and be "one of the guys" with them.

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Permalink Reply by Nessa on May 12, 2008 at 1:39pm

hi, i am the only girl to be hired full time at my dept. it is difficult in the begining butit does get easier i promise, it took a while but once i proved that i was capiable of doing the job i was accepted in the "good ole boys " club. i am on track to make captian in two more years (hopefully)...just hang in there they will come around it may take more time with some than others. the one thing i can say i was never coddled they tried thier best to make me quite or get me fired ...now they are my family and we are all very close...hope this helps

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Permalink Reply by Spanner 122 on May 12, 2008 at 4:03pm

Hey Megan... unfortunately you will always feel this to some degree. There is always going to be one, or more, who will treat you like this or make you feel like this. I am fulltime, on a department of over 1000, less than 2% women (there's 12 of us, 8 of us active right now, 3 on my shift and we're spread out over the city and never see each other). I am at a station where I get along well with the boys, but now and then there's a comment that will drive me crazy. The capt is respectful, but a little hesitant to let me drive. You have to take the bull by the horns. I was driving the pump the other day, just to the store, we got a call, Capt starts to speak and I took a chance and said, "I got it, I know where that is" It worked in my favour, I made there quickly and safely. You sometimes have to let them know you can do it.
I have found that keeping my head down and just working is the best way. And you're right, it seems to be the younger guys who have more issue than the older guys... odd isn't it? The older guys will see you work and realize that you deserve to be there, while the younger bucks will see you as the person who too their buddy's job. I have that discussion a lot, and remind them it took me 6 years to get hired. I was 65th on the list before the interview and finished top ten. So basically, they can shove it! haha! There will always be guys who don't like you, they won't even give you a chance. Don't bother with them unless you have to. There is nothing saying you have to like everyone, hell, you don't even have to respect everyone, you just have to be able to work with everyone. Some days that's the toughest thing you will do at work, some days it's a piece of cake. Roll with it. :)

As for leadership, just follow along your departments SOP/SOG's for promotions etc. If you have just started, give it time, you have a lifetime to get there. I won't even have the opportunity it write (we write exams here for promotions) for another eight years and even then it's just for the experience. I won't place high enough on the list (years of service plus mark) until about 12-15 years from now even if I write a perfect exam. Being a buck is okay, take the role and do it well.

Just remember, project confidence, when the going gets tough, head down and keep moving forward, be yourself and don't let those who don't like you hold you back. Everyone will have their opinion on you and you just have to remind yourself the only opinion that matters is your own (oh and of course your capt and chiefs.. haha)! Keep at it, Equality is a long hard road ahead, we may never see it... but now and then you'll do things better, faster, or smarter.. and when you do, just grin!! :)

Take care Megan! :)

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Permalink Reply by Megan on May 14, 2008 at 2:30pm

Hey Spanner, Thanks so much for taking the time to reply in detail. I guess that I will just have to keep on keepin on. Also, I am usually the type to keep my head down and shut up and ignore ppls sh*t but I think that I am going to start speaking up more often when the brand new probies get bucky and start flapping their jaws. I don't know why for some reason, they think that I deserve any less respect that they give any of the other senior members. I spoke up in meeting the other night and the same ppl shoot me down and roll their eyes with out even trying to hear my valid point. I rarely speak up or contribute unless I have a valid point. I'm venting, cuz grrr they piss me off sometimes...Anyways, Thanks.

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Permalink Reply by Spanner 122 on May 25, 2008 at 1:01pm

That's really unacceptable Megan! There are times when you need to just work and suck it up and times when you're right, you need to speak your mind and say your piece. Maybe a nice subtle... "if you don't mind, I'm not finished" when being cut off, you know, it usually comes up dripping with attitude, but you can pretend you didn't mean it to... haha... works for me when it has to. Or ask the Capt for the floor... as long as he isn't as bad as the rest of them. If the Capt gives you the floor, any interruption is a slap in his face as much as yours.

I feel for you. I've had times like this as well, but it does get better. Stand your ground without giving back the shit you're taking (so hard to take the high road sometimes, I know)!

And there is nothing wrong with venting!! :) Remember you are always going to be stacked up against the women who can't cut it and really shouldn't be there and that's the biggest problem with hiring these days. The ones who want to work and will work are going to be painted with the brush of those who are there for the so called "glory" of it all (I've yet to see the glory... lol). Keep your head up and keep at it. Remember that the road we pave will help those later on who are worthy of this job.. unfortunately there are going to be as many, or maybe more who will knock down our work, but that doesn't mean we can't keep trying, right??

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Permalink Reply by Courtney Clark on May 13, 2008 at 12:18am

I guess im am one of the lucky ones as far as females firefighters go, i feel like that i get equal respect from most of the men on my department. There are a few though that i have had issuses with though i have just learned to bite back and not take it seriously, because if you do you will only end up with your feelings hurt. It seems that i have the most trouble out of the guys who have been there 20 years plus because they don't believe women should involved in anything to do with the fire service or then you have the really young guys who are just too cocky for there own good. Just keep your head up never let them see you cry and it will eventually get better. I am the 2nd female for my department also and i have also found alot of comfort in Christy the other female on the department.

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Permalink Reply by Megan on May 14, 2008 at 2:33pm

Hey Courtney, thanks for replying. The other female on my dept. came before me and was gone before I got on. Also, she did not make a good impression on some of the guys, so I think that they thought that I was going to be just like her. So I have had to do alot of work just proving that I wasn't like her.

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Permalink Reply by Courtney Clark on May 15, 2008 at 12:06am

Your Welcome....we had one of those she actually was removed for stripping in her turn out gear it really sucks sometimes because they assume that all females are in it for the wrong reasons. I had a firefighters wife recently verbally attack me saying that i didnt need to be around her husband that has been the hardest thing for me., but i have learned not to let it get to me because if they see it does they will only do w/e they can to get rid of you....

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Permalink Reply by Megan on May 20, 2008 at 11:49am

Courtney, I have recently heard from one of the FFs that the reason that I am not included in social outings is because the FFs girlfriends' and wives' think that I am trying to steal their men and don't understand/aren't comfortable with the idea of a female FF. Puhleeeese... I thought that if anyone would be enlightened, it would be the women but I guess not. They are too busy feeling threatened and unsure of their relationships. I am at a place right now where the guys c*ck off to me and the GFs hate me, all for the sole reason of me being female. I am just going to keep my nose to the ground, keep learning and training, and do my job. Things can only get better from here.

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Permalink Reply by Courtney Clark on May 20, 2008 at 8:14pm

Hey megan thanks atleast i know im not the only one who goes through this. Its like i told this firefighters wife, i am not here to hit on your husband or take them aways i will be here a long time now if you would please get your head out of your ass. I also told her that she would have to get used to having her husband around attractive women wether it be as patients/medics/or other female firefighters because with her attitude i might just be around longer than she was, i think its funny how insecure and unsure these women are in there relationships....honestly how long will it last if she can't handle him working with women. She tried to have me removed from my fire dept recently because i told her she was insecure. And my Cheif wasnt happy with me but he told her under no certain terms would he have me relieved from duty for something as childish as that. I think that sometimes the firefighters wives make it harder on females in the dept because they stir up rumors and start drama and the last thing men want around the fire dept. is female drama.

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Permalink Reply by fyrfytr309 on May 25, 2008 at 12:29pm

Hi Ladies. I went through a lot of the same type of thing. It took a long time to earn the respect of my crew (I still work at the 200% capacity), I had issues not only with the other GF's and wives, but the other female member. She was jealous that I was around 'her boys'. I started having BBQ's and initiating other social events inviting the whole FD and spouses. This did ease the tension a bit, but I still have several women that are insecure in their relationships and assume that I am just trying to 'move in' on their men. BTW, this only happens on my volunteer department. I am the only oilfield / blowout / well control female firefighter in my region and while we don't socialize outside of the job as much as the VFD does, I have never run into the same jealousy problem.

I found early on that there were many women ON departments that were very competitive with and ignorant to me. I merely knuckled down and worked even harder. It's made me a better firefighter and a better person. I am a woman and I don't ever try to diminish that fact (not that I wear make up and have my hair coiffed on the job). I simply conduct myself with the dignity, pride and honour that ANY woman in our position should.

Hold your heads high, be proud of what you have accomplished!

Stay Low, Stay Safe!

Carrie.

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Permalink Reply by Megan on May 27, 2008 at 7:31am

Thanks so much for sharing this. I am right in the middle of this mindless childishness. One of the FF's I get along with went out on a limb and invited me to his Bonfire. NONE of the GFs said Hi or talked to me the entire night. In fact, they sat in a huddle, whispering like a bunch of high school girls. I went to talk to the FF that had invited me and his GF called him out in front of all his friends just b/c I was talking to him. They then proceeded to go inside for the duration of the night and she chewed him out for inviting me. As you said, I cannot believe just how insecure some of these women are. They act as if this is the first time their BFs have interacted with another female... The funny thing is, I have not given one iota that my intentions are bad, and in fact have been friendly and gone above and beyond trying to make friends with these girls. As I have said before, I am by no means a vixen, don't dress revealing or act inappropriate. I can't imagine the stir it would cause to have a Female FF like that around. Sooner or later, more are bound to come and some of them just may be young, attractive, single and friendly and oh, the drama that will ensue...they feel threatened now, just wait. LOL.

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