I DID NOT KNOW THIS...

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Permalink Reply by verno on November 4, 2009 at 5:08pm

YO Griff, just so you know training fires are different than "Real fires" in "Little" Columbiana County also!! This was brought to my attention this spring. What a joke!!!!!!! The bottom line is, they are scared of what you and your FD are able to do and it makes them look like a bunch of jerkoffs! So instead of getting with the times, we will just bash you BEHIND YOUR BACK. (Ballless if you ask me)

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Permalink Reply by R Griffin on November 4, 2009 at 7:22pm

Yeah I heard of that training LOL!!! I only fight real fires right? I always tell firefighters good job when they do things safe and the way they trained for it but if I comment on one thing wrong or unsafe then I instantly become a big city want to be fire chief. Glenmoor has been down this road before and still did the same trainings and responded the same way the chief wanted without worrying what people thought . I'm not trying to change other departments. BE SAFE!!!

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Permalink Reply by Matt Smith on November 4, 2009 at 10:55pm

WOW ! Enough said !

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Permalink Reply by dday on November 6, 2009 at 2:24pm

Well, welcome to my world... I hear all kinds of stories of us being "safety sallies" and all about how we train and operate all the time (second hand of course). As I have said on here several times, we will continue to operate how we do and if dept x,y & z don't like it so be it. Do what you believe in. I mean really, those comments in regards to FF Survival and RIT, WTF? I know some things are going to happen no matter how prepared you are. But I feel confident that if something happens the FF's training will kick in and call out a MAYDAY, and get themselves out of the trouble they are in. Being able to recognize a MAYDAY situation is very important and unheard of in some areas. Some people say calling a MAYDAY makes you a pussy and lets not mention the harassment that will be made to the crew.


Calling a MAYDAY in my mind makes me think OK, this FF has recognized they are in trouble. They will give me a report and we will send a team in to get them... If they get them selves out of the situation before the team gets them they call and advise the situation is under control and the team will pull out of the house. Calling a MAYDAY in my eyes and having your people trained in FF Survival increases the chances that if something happens we will have a better chance to make the outcome more positive.




The negative comments about the training mentioned above are changes in the fire service and I feel important changes to the fire service. Lets not forget some of this is from FF's being injured or a LODD. It is a change some depts will fight and complain and make statements about until they retire. Some will change their views and some will not. To be a firefighter these days we need to be able to adapt to the ever so changing fire service. Look at the people who are complaining about the yearly CE... Sitting on the back of the old fire truck telling stories how we did things back in the day, are not how we need to be training our firefighters these days.





No matter if a dept runs 1 or 50 structure fires a year the people should be trained and able to handle any situation that could be exposed to them. Just because "we run one fire a year and that training is stupid" along with "that isn't going to happen here" those comments amaze me... What happens when the people push in to far and something happens then what? They become injured or the un mentionable happens? Then what they are hero's? I don't think so...They got injured because they had in adequate training...Or better yet they got injured because they had lack of PPE on and have burns over half their body. Or FF B got hit on the head because he/she was climbing up a ladder and their helmet fell off then a object strikes them and now have a serious head injury... Let me guess that would probably qualify for a hero stamp to huh? When in reality it comes to a lack of training in regards to PPE and laziness...





As for the people who think this kind of operations are for big city how do you come up to that conclusion? I think the bottom line is the fire will kill us or injure us. The only way we look out for ourselves is to have all of our people trained to today's standards in the fire service and wait for the next curve ball to be thrown at us...



Also for those who say they lack the manpower for this? Are you kidding me? I didn't realize you need to have more manpower on the scene to have your firefighters trained in FF Survival. And to get everyone trained in RIT operation are you serious you are going to say you can't get a team of 4-5 people to be a RIT team on a fire? I mean look at the paper. Most of the time I see 5-10-15-20 people standing outside so don't pull that card out on me. I feel having a team whether you pull from your own dept or a mutual aid dept increases the chances of bringing "everyone home"



Some say a RIT team is a joke and if something happens we will just go get them... That is all well and good until it happens and it is unorganized chaos...There will be everyone trying to tell everyone what to do and nothing will get accomplished. If you disagree we will come and train with departments and just do some basic searches and throw a wrench in the plan and see how it goes. Then once that is completed we will do the same thing and show how the RIT team would be activated and see if that would change some peoples thinking. I think it would...



This is it for now. I have some links to some fires in "Ohio" for some to read... If I need to put more up just say so and I would be glad to put them up...

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/fire/pdfs/face200312.pdf

http://www.readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=86915

http://www2.nbc4i.com/cmh/news/state_regional/article/9_firefighter...

http://www.firehouse.com/node/39281

http://www.youngstownfire.com/forums/index.php?topic=8281.0

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Permalink Reply by Big City LT Max L. on November 6, 2009 at 3:16pm

here has been my claim for years... they talk trash and bad mouth how we dont know what we are doing.. we are waisting time. yet when the shit hits the fan who is the first fd they are calling. it blows my mind that some people can be so close minded.. i think its fear of people knowing there is someone who knows more than they do.. sad as it is.. well for all those who dont wish to change.. i challange you to pick up a niosh report and read it. you want to see what a$$hole you will look like in front of the world there it is.... one thing goes wrong the world reads it.. well only if you have real fires.. and they are not in ohio.. if you cant step up then shut up.. the proof is out there these tactics are saving lives. FIREFIGHTER lives everyday. ok to bad i am at work or i could go on and on....

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Permalink Reply by jason moore on November 8, 2009 at 9:56am

first off my comments are just that MY COMMENTS, With that being said, im sick and tired of this whole conversation being one sided. There is trash talking, but its coming from both sides, you know it and i know it,and only one side is shooting their mout off on the internet so lets drop the " i'm the victim" and everyones afraid of what i know attitude. GIVE ME A BREAK! I tell ya what gets old and thats when as max says the sh#T HITS THE FAN you call for help and all you get is a bunch of guys standing outside in the lawn WITH AIRPACKS, BREATHING AIR worried about where are we gonna stage, thats bullcrap! There are some good guys with this dept but they held back due to the fact their chief has lost focus on why were here... " hey chief were here to fight fire" you know, to save life and property, yes there is a time and a place to stage people and equipment, but not on a scale that you are trying to pull off. As far as your dept goes staging is one hell of a Public Relations campaign, You get to stand outside in the lawn by your trucks and get your pictures taken in your nice clean dry gear and look like the "HERO'S". To Joe public your doing a hell of a job, but little does Joe public know that the real work is being done on the inside of the house, where the fire is. What we do is dangerous, thats the nature of the beast, but as for my dept we try to minimize risk and maximize effect, So what, we dont stand outside and smile pretty for the camera, so what, that we go inside and put out FIRE. I think its sad to see unused resources standing outside being held back by a chief who lost his way. This chief im talking about isnt a bad guy, not at all but i just feel that he lost focus, and now that hes on a crusade for safety, and yes he is trying to force his ways and ideas upon all surrounding depts, but i hate to tell ya chief there are many depts and many chiefs in the area and your just one of many. I love the fact that you have text book firefighters who think just because they read it in a book they know it all. So read your niosh reports and keep going to county fire meetings and keep telling people your sad little story about how nobody wants to listen to the "WE DO IT RIGHT" fire dept, and keep on putting your jacked up little comments on this web site so all your buddies can see what a bad a$$ you are and how all your trying to do is be safe, and how other stations just are to scared to change because you are the smartest and best there ever was. O YEAH before i forget, Maxx when the "S#IT HITS THE FAN" and we really need someone, trust me when i say we dont call for your dept. We look south for help. You guys know when were at the station all you have to do is just stop in and we all can have a sit down and stop this stupid, silly highschool BULL$HIT he said she said and i heard garbage. Or we can keep doing this and drive a wedge even farther between us. Balls in your court now chief, BE SAFE. FYD!

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Permalink Reply by Big City LT Max L. on November 8, 2009 at 11:57am

Jeremy first off why does everyone think I am talking about them… Could it be guilty conscious? To assume that I am talk of them. Who even said it was this end of the county I was talking about. I am in class I work 24 hour shifts on top of having my son. Sorry it takes me time to answer to this page sometimes. And this is the out of hand bullsh*t that comes about??????? We all have good and bad in all the stations around here. If you where offended I am sorry. The fact of the matter is there are few departments around here that give a shit about firefighter safety. Was I calling you or your department out no I wasn’t. however since Jason wanted to call me out by name here we go. And as you said Jason my statements are that of me and me alone. There is no he said she said bull shit and any time you wish to sit and talk let’s do it. Who is talking shit Jason? Not me not my guys we are telling it how it is when it comes to fire fighter safety. But since you feel I am I will address each comment made. Personally I think you are a hell of a guy and a good firefighter.

" i'm the victim" and everyones afraid of what i know attitude
Who said we where victims? Where did this come from? We train in survival and safety. Does that give us an attitude uumm not in my book. Knowledge is power my friend. In this business we cant afford to half a$$ half know. New building construction new cars new fire loads in homes and we wish to do things the way we have always done in the 70 and 80.. for real you haven’t seen a change in fires we fight they way they act then I am sorry you have missed this change. Do you know that there are 28% more firefighters caught in flashovers in the last ten years? Or am I being to text book.. I refer to it as educated.
max says the sh#T HITS THE FAN you call for help and all you get is a bunch of guys standing outside in the lawn WITH AIRPACKS, BREATHING AIR worried about where are we gonna stage, thats bullcrap!
Its not staging its called accountability. Do you know where everyone was on that fire inside and out? Should of it gone bad or a collapse would you have known where everyone was that was inside the building or working outside the building? NO ONE was in the yard breathing. They would have been on AIR when they where assigned to a task by someone who would know where they was and what they was doing so should an event happen, people would know where to start looking. I have come out of a structure fire when MY CHIEF at the time had no idea I was in there and had give the all clear. If it went bad who would of realized my partner and I where missing??? Back at that the station? Next day when my car was still at the fd. Rush in and go get it is going to make someone a NIOSH report.




You get to stand outside in the lawn by your trucks and get your pictures taken in your nice clean dry gear and look like the "HERO'S". To Joe public your doing a hell of a job, but little does Joe public know that the real work is being done on the inside of the house, where the fire is. What we do is dangerous, thats the nature of the beast, but as for my dept we try to minimize risk and maximize effect, So what, we dont stand outside and smile pretty for the camera, so what, that we go inside and put out FIRE
Are you f*cking kidding me really??? Where does it say in the book clean gear makes you want to have your picture taken to look like a HERO??? Again being uneducated to the point of what is in the house we fight fire in. Hydro carbons baked into the soot on your gear. What does this do.. well when you reach the proper temperature and all the hydro carbons self ignite perhaps you wouldn’t of wanted to brag I look like a firefighter because I had dirty gear. Its not a public relations campaign its doing whats right for firefighter safety. You wish to look down on me or my people because we are doing what has to be done to make sure everyone gets back on the truck that stepped off it. Minimize risk for maximize effect. You have a burning structure fire with a weak roof, a man on the roof with out a pack. Where is this minimized risk? No one knowing where anyone is a minimized risk? A couple guys around back and couple guys in front is not minimized risk. That maximized risk. The residence was out of the home and safe. That’s what its all about. Property is replaceable people are not. When you can tell me where everyone is on a fire ground not by a few people but by count then you can convince me of minimized risk. Go in and get it is a thing of the past. You’ll risk your life to save another but wont take a few simple steps to save you’re a$$ or your brothers a$$. How many people do you wish to have watching 3 guys do a job. Why not stage so an officer isn’t running around like an idiot try find where 10 guys are standing watching 3 work.
I love the fact that you have text book firefighters who think just because they read it in a book they know it all. So read your niosh reports and keep going to county fire meetings and keep telling people your sad little story about how nobody wants to listen to the "WE DO IT RIGHT" fire dept, and keep on putting your jacked up little comments on this web site so all your buddies can see what a bad a$$ you are and how all your trying to do is be safe, and how other stations just are to scared to change because you are the smartest and best there ever was.
Text book firefighter. Where do you learn what you know where do you learn what is new and what is changing in our world. Every person who screams I’ve been doing this for 30 years… well you know what you have.. 30 years of what use to be., take your tactics back to 1970. Before light weight construction. Before glued together floor joist. No we don’t think we know it all. We think we have learned alittle bit to keep ourselves safe. Not that we have been doing it for xyz years and we know it all. I cant believe any firefighter in this time old or new would be against education. What a joke if you think you know it all get the f*ck out before you kill someone with your know it all attitude. Rude words of me to say. But challenge me because we are learning at what killed others. Yes KILLED OTHER FIREFIGHTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do you wish to be another number on the LODD list. Do you even have an idea what the NIOSH reports are???????? Just incase you haven’t a clue. NIOSH comes in after a fire fighter is killed or dies in the line of duty. Reviews everything that went wrong and puts out a report. Do you not feel it important to review what has killed brother firefighters. To try and learn from the tragedy they faced and their department. Last thing I want to read is a NIOSH report about any department. Specially one in Columbiana County.
O YEAH before i forget, Maxx when the "S#IT HITS THE FAN" and we really need someone, trust me when i say we dont call for your dept. We look south for help.
Jason I am sorry you feel that way. However if my guys have one less call to answer. One less chance to be hurt or killed on a fire call you act as thought it hurts my feelings. I take every call seriously. Every call like it could be the last one, one of my guys could be on. If it makes me a safety sally then thank you for the compliment. You think it makes me reserve perhaps but I will have a clear mind knowing I followed risk management and making sure ALL of my guys got home because I was educated enough to be more than a TEXT BOOK firefighter or fire officer to know and see the dangers of what we do. There is more to it than just saying it’s a dangerous job. How about having a set big enough to stand up to be safe to make sure everyone goes home and just not do it the way we always have.

You guys know when were at the station all you have to do is just stop in and we all can have a sit down and stop this stupid, silly highschool BULL$HIT he said she said and i heard garbage. Or we can keep doing this and drive a wedge even farther between us. Balls in your court now chief, BE SAFE. FYD!
Anytime we can sit down and talk I am all for it. Communication is the best factor we can have. There is no silly bullshit. Why does the ball have to be in the chiefs court??? Can we as firefighters and officers not take the steps to improve relations. The wedge drive between us is in comments like we wont call you.. who cares if they miss a call. There will be many more. More chances to hurt ourselves to have one of our guys die. There is more to life than go get it there is more to life than being safe. We need to work together to find a spot. My belief is that we use to meet all the time. There use to be times we met after big calls and reviewed everything. We don’t do that. this issue is bigger than just this event. This is all about pride not what is best for the residence of this area. No what is best to make sure we all go home. Jason I will sit down and talk any time you wish. I am sure we can make schedules work out to make it happen.

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Permalink Reply by BALLPEIN on November 8, 2009 at 12:08pm

I dont know. You have be safe at the end of your comment ,but yet you are complaining that there are guys on the lawn(to save your rear) when it all goes bad. O ,but you will never get caught in that bad situation, I doesn't happen to you. Yes the job is dangerous that is why we take steps to make the fire scene more safe. Like RIT and keeping people were the cheif can see them so he knows they are there and doesn't have to go looking for them to get a task done what ever it may be.

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Permalink Reply by jason moore on November 8, 2009 at 5:07pm

I somehow dont remeber seeing you there at that fire, o yeah thats because you werent. So if you werent there how in the heck can you comment ? I guess you cant, but since you did ill reply to what you wrote. I DO NOT have the it cant happen to me attitude, im glad you know me and can make that assumption, sir all you have to comment on is stories and hear say, ( bad idea) RIT is great i do agree on that but 3 guys standing in the front yard with NO tools is not a RIT team those fellas are observers. I guess i could talk this till im bored with it but why? its not going to change a damn thing.

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Permalink Reply by Big City LT Max L. on November 8, 2009 at 5:11pm

your right its not going to change until someone has the balls to bring it. its still going to be the go get it attitude of 1970's before fire was the monstor it is. but then what the hell do i know. if that is all you got out of my post you need a text book more than i do.

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Permalink Reply by jason moore on November 8, 2009 at 5:56pm

max i wasnt replying to your post, im sorry if thats how it come across to you. I was replying to ballpein. The fire of the 70s is for the most part the same as today, with the exception of materials, it was hot in the 70s and its well hard to beleive but its still hot in 2009. Who am i trying to bullcrap, your text book would have told you that. Max i am poking fun for the text book comment, but in all reality im not knocking you fellas. All im asking ,i guess is to stop putting one sided stories on here. You do what you do and we will do what we will do and in the end it will come out. But i will say this your chiefs comment about counting boots and digging bodies was in poor taste, no wonder he erased it. AND YOU GUYS ELECTED HIM, MR SAFETY. have a good one max im not gonna reply anymore and yes we will have to get together. If there is anything else that needs talked about were always there on tuesdays.

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Permalink Reply by Big City LT Max L. on November 8, 2009 at 6:01pm

Jason you need to look. the heat is alot different. the typical structure fire in the 70s burned 450 to 800 degrees. todays homes with all the plastics and crap are burning 1100 to 1400 degrees there is a huge difference in them. I really hope we can get a chance to sit down and talk about all this mess. Mr Safety is compliment im not trying to be an ass brother. just trying to help us all by saving our ass by watching our 6 oclock.

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