Ten Minutes in the Street: On-scene, with Engine 21, Second Alarm…

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Permalink Reply by Chief Dino on November 16, 2009 at 6:58pm

Thanks for the detailed reply Ben. We don't have any structure resembling the scenario where I live, but could experience this on mutual aid. Haven't chimed in on any of Chris' posts mostly because I feel really inadequate; most of my Navy training means squat on structural fires. Most of the variables are different. I learn a lot from these threads.

TCSS

Shawn

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Cole on November 16, 2009 at 8:22pm

Order a second-alarm response (that's fire alarms job to find 'em and dispatch 'em) but consider a delayed response considering the simultaneous job. Ensure EMS (BLS/ALS) is responding if seperate entity from your FD. Lay-in (forward) but considering the cul-de-sac, if no hydrant is available at the end of the cul, lay forward using the opposite side to facailitate room for the truck.

Assuming the company officer is first officer on scene, radio size up, requests, and initial attack action, and report 'fast-attack' mode, or 'all hands' indicating passing command as engines crew will use all hands. If the hydrant IS outside the cl entrane, the hydrant will have to wrapped 'dry' as all four crew memebrs (less than 4 means your screwed...so are any occupants) are needed.

One firefighter will begin to throw and place a 24' extension ladder to prepare for VES, while the company officer attempts a quick look at conditions around the back. Luckily the fire is towards an end unit, making this somewhat easier. The conditions found in the rear indicate VES is required. A 1.75" preconnected handline is stretched to the doorway, and charged. The Offcier quickly backs-up the nozzle man, and advances up the stairs in attempts to hold the fire to the room of origin. The apparatus operator will have to back-up the firefighter making VES, who MUST find, and close the room doors to attempt to confine the fire.

Obviously, this an all-out, maximum effort by the entire crew, which leaves MANY positions uncovered, and some will argue is unsafe. However, with judicious use of on-board tank water, experienced and trained crews, a quick primary search can be done, and entrapped victims that are 'viable', and not already deceased may have the best chance for rescue if done correctly, and time cooperates.

Given the visible fire conditions, I would say this is a very good possibility for knock-down and rescue. Second-due engine will have to 'pick-up' the hydrant,finsihing the connection, and/or plaing their engine on the hydrant. Immediatly a back-up line needs to be stretched to the second floor. The first-due truck will take the front, and the aerial will be placed to the roof. It so appears that fire walls are in place, judging by the off-set appearences of each unit. The first-due truck will complete the secondary search, splitting the crew, with the other working off the aerial, and attempting to open the roof. If the presence of ridge vents are on the roof, then the crew will work to open this vent, and check for fire extension.

The ability to provide for rapid knock down, confinement and control of the bedroom fire will dictate the further supression tactics. Truck crews making the secondary search, and/or the engine company providing the second line (back-up line) will need to open the ceilings asap. Any signs of fire will indicate weakening of the ceiling and truss system, and likely rapid and complete fire involvement of the truss space. Likewise for the roof operations (again, off the aerial only) Finding fire in this space will be reported to command, and the subsequent immediate evacuation of all personnel will be made.

The third-due engine will be placed inside the cul de sac to the rer 'C' side of the fire building to facilitate stretching lines to the rear of the building, for exposure and operational protection, should the fire extend. The second-due truck will be placed between the exposre 'B'-a, and 'B' -b buildings, with crews entering both 'B' and 'C' buildings to check for extension. Obviously, any signs of extension will require additional alarms, and offensive placement of crews with hoselines, with the main strategy of stopping the fire from extending along the 'B' exposres...but I'm calling it U/C after knocking down the division 2 bedroom fire rapidly, cause that's the way I see it!

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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on November 16, 2009 at 8:43pm

Jeff,

I don't see any fire walls - by definition, those are masonry, and extend all the way through the roof line including the A and C soffits. The offset construction here doesn't have masonry walls that fit that description.

Fire conditions - I think they are worse than what you're seeing. The C-side view shows the fire autovented and autoexposing the soffits. The window to the left of the fire is showing some darker smoke, indicating a lot of heat and possible pending flashover. The C soffit is showing smoke from the attached B exposure, indicating extension to the cockloft.

There are also at least three and possibly four rooms on Division 2 that must be searched - the three windows showing smoke and possibly a bathroom with no exterior windows. I'm writing off the flashed over room - obviously anyone there is dead.

I think we're already behind the curve on a cockloft fire here. I think the tank water isn't going to get it done.

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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on November 17, 2009 at 11:17pm

I don't see fire walls in this one. Fire walls are typically masonry construction that extends completely through the roof and extends at least a couple of feet laterally out the A and C (or B/D) walls.

The offsets here don't do that.

I also see smoke showing from the soffits on the C side of the B exposure. That tells me that we have a cockloft fire, not just a room and contents.

The fire apartment has at least four rooms upstairs, and probably at least 5. There are probably 3 or 4 bedrooms and 1 or 2 baths, some of which do not communicate to the outside, and which may also be involved.

The increasing black smoke from the second window on the C side tells me that this room is on the way to flashover, and might get there before we get the line stretched to that room.

I you hit this one quickly and get it under control with the first alarm, good for you, but I thing the outcome is a lot more doubtful that your scenario estimates.

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Permalink Reply by Brian "Moose" Jones on November 18, 2009 at 8:17am

You guys always beat me to this and I am always wondering how the hell to respond after reading such awesome, professional reports that cover everything already...lol

From what I read in the narrative, Chris said the first engine was dropping line at the fire and doing a reverse lay to the hydrant at the entrance to the parking lot, so water shouldnt be a problem, unless this hydrant flops on us!

Engine crew will hit the fire hard, searching on the way. Sometimes the best way to save a life is to remove the threat.

Ladder crews will perform VES and search for victim, than vent the structure further.

Second engine will stretch an exposure line and check for extension to the neighboring town houses. Third engine stretches second line to fire building.

Second truck controls utilities than is RIT, Rescue assists with the search than slavage if possible.

I agree with Ben here too, have the resources coming in EARLY...with the crosstown fire the home team will be stretched thin so the Mutual Aid needs to be called for early on in the game to assure they get there as soon as possible. Id rather have the help and not need it than need it and not have it...lol

These posts are an excellent resource for all of us to stay on top of our game, and everyone usually responds very professionally. Thanks for always sharing your combined knowledge with us all.

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Permalink Reply by Captain703 on November 18, 2009 at 11:41pm

I agree. These posts do keep us on our "A" game. I love it and I'm actually learning in the process.

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Permalink Reply by Chief Dino 1 day ago

I'll second that. I learn a lot from the "ten minute" series

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