Juniors and the Ambulance

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Permalink Reply by Loyd Dittfurth on October 9, 2009 at 12:22am

one other thing if you are currently taking a emt class you can ride along but you still can not interact with the patient with sample history vitals or any other aspect all you can do is observe and help lift from time to time

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Permalink Reply by Fireyladd Chief Sharp on October 9, 2009 at 12:29am

This would be entirely up to the protocols and department policy of the agency the Junior represents.

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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on October 9, 2009 at 1:11am

When I was an explorer we were allowed to ride on the ambulances, and usually that is what we did because of more chance for calls. It was decided several years later that explorers shouldn't be allowed on an ambulance anf ride alongs were limited to either the pump or truck companies. Our explorers may ride an engine and get to see some EMS, but I do agree that explorers or juniors should not be doing any type of patient care.

The issue with "seeing stuff" isn't that big a deal, but the problem comes down to patient privacy and patient care. While juniors or explorers may be held to similar standards regarding the release of patient info, the legal aspects fall with the department. Same thing with allowing an explorer/junior do patient care, the legal aspects fall to the department. In the event of a lawsuit, it could easily mean someone's license and/or career if a non medically qualified person was doing patient care.

As with everything, the role of an explorer or junior is to OBSERVE. There will definately be plenty of EMS in the future if one decides this career path, there is no reason to take unneccesary legal chances by having non-medical qualified personnel riding along.

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Permalink Reply by ashfire on October 9, 2009 at 10:01am

Our county has had a high school cadet program along with other counties in the state. You have to take firefighter one, EMT, and CPR for the program and do ride alongs at their stations.
Our two volunteer stations have had juniors with EMT riding third on the ambulance and many of them made great members. They couldn't ride officer or drive until they were eighteen and had training for those.

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Permalink Reply by Steven on October 9, 2009 at 10:33am

If you are under the age of 18, the answer will always be no. We don't even like having family members in the back unless it's a parent comforting a child patient or they're both patients.

I understand the junior firefighter's thirst for knowledge and experience and we, as firefighters, should give these future firefighters every opportunity to experience as much as they can and remain safe.

However, in EMS, patient care, your first responsibility is to the patient, period. This is their life on the line, not a junior firefighter.

At the very very least, I might ask one of our explorers to get someone else to help me with patient care, but we expressly prohibit explorers from EMS and MVA calls because of the patient care aspect.

Frankly, on most EMS calls, the fewer people there to "gawk" at the scene, the better. I've walked away from many EMS calls when there are lots of blue lights in the driveway and along the street. Rarely do you need more than four, five firefighters/EMS there for a call.

The exception to keeping manpower limited would be (for the most part) multiple patients, lift assists and/or extended extrication/rescue.

On the flip side, we often use explorers for EMS drills, extrication drills, and the like. They can be victims, they can be EMS, they can be whatever they'd like. If they want to "play EMT" they could if time and manpower allow, but it's not training for them, just exposure.

In NYS, the highest level of care an individual under the age of 18 could qualify for is CPR with AED, First Aid, and/or lifeguard. Anything above that they have to legally be an adult, that's a lot of responsibility and you can go to jail if you are wrong.

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Permalink Reply by FETC on October 9, 2009 at 12:10pm

Rex,

I understand your excitement for fire and ems, it is addicting. Been there and done that.

There is a reason NREMT requires you to be 18 to take the registry exam, it is called being an adult and level of maturity. Sorry 14 or 15 year old juniors should be either in school, doing homework, playing sports or in bed sleeping during the overnight hours.

If your agency is in need of juniors to fill out EMS crews then they have bigger issues.

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Permalink Reply by ashfire on October 9, 2009 at 11:02pm

In my volunteer department and most of the others in our county junior members have to keep their school grades up and have to be out of the station on school nights by a set time and if they want to sleep in have to have premission by their parents and the chief to do so. If they want to sleep in on the weekends they have to have premission for that too.
They have to show report cards to the chief and if grades do drop they can be operationally suspended until they show that their grades have improve.

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Permalink Reply by John Sherrer on October 9, 2009 at 11:07pm

I have not heard of dept checking grades, but that is a great idea!

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Permalink Reply by Lt. Caleb French on October 9, 2009 at 11:09pm

Absolutely NOT!

Not in any way, shape or form!

You would never see the desk, with the never ending pile of lawsuits.

Leave the EMS work to the people with the proper training.

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Permalink Reply by Forrest Post on November 9, 2009 at 6:05pm

Everyone who's on the explorer/junior program should be allowed to ride in the squad after a year in the post minimum IF they want to.
Our Fire and EMS are separate, But we are allowed to do time at both if we want. There are idiots in the group that can easily screw things over for the rest of us, so a year and permission should be needed from an advisor prior to going on squad calls I think.

For liability, you have to make sure you don't have an idiot in the back trying to touch the patient and that, and should know what you're doing and what is expected to do and not do.

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Gaudio on November 9, 2009 at 7:47pm

I started as an explorer for the EMS provider in my city and Valley. I began as an observer at 15 and obtained my EMT certification at 16. After I was a certified EMT, I provided patient care and also started at a second ambulance service as a volunteer and provided patient care. I was not allowed to drive the emergency vehicles until I turned 18 and recieved my EVOC training & cert.

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Permalink Reply by Jake Fireman on November 9, 2009 at 8:16pm

Ryan, Im sure you're a great kid and if you so desire, Im sure you will make it into the fire department when you are old enough. But a junior is a junior and should be kept off all apparatus until they reach the age of being at least EMT certified. Good luck in your endeavors.

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