Five Minutes in the Streets: "Heavy Smoke Showin.."

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Permalink Reply by Lt. Caleb French on February 2, 2009 at 7:19pm

Another great post and topic for discussion Chris. And seeing as no one else has posted anything, I will take a crack at it.

I will select the NON-hydrant service area, since this is most likely what our department would run into.

I will also select the first due role.

So being as I would more than likely be the highest ranking officer on the first due engine, I would put a call out over the radio "All units be advised, 2 story occupancy heavy smoke showing with flames showing from the C and D side. Possible victims inside. Unit 7 Has command."

Then I would call into dispatch and immediately strike out a 1st and 2nd alarm which would consist of mostly tankers. Additionally I would request an additional ALS (we have one automatically toned with our other automatic mutual aide which consists of an engine, and 2 tankers) unit for the possible victims, with Life Flight on standby.

I would select a water shuttle officer, and have the tanker crew drop their pond and set up water supply. Meanwhile the engine crew would be pulling both of the 1 3/4 pre-connects for interior attack, and then have them get a 2 1/2 foam line established for structure protection.

As manpower shows up I would have them establish a fill site for the tankers, and have crews start interior attack and primary searches.

As higher ranking officers show up I would transfer command and make it known over the radio, "All units be advised, Unit 7 is transferring command to Unit (insert # here)." And then I would assume another role.

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Permalink Reply by Doug on February 2, 2009 at 7:37pm

I don't like the looks of that smoke. It's very dark and acrid, and seems to be pushing hard from the picture. The fire load is growing, and fast. This sucker could flash at any moment.

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Permalink Reply by Ted Bownas on February 2, 2009 at 8:01pm

I was outside chopping 6" of solid ice away from my driveway when this was posted...to make room for the snow we're supposed to get tomorrow... ugh.

ANYhoo...

Heavy Smoke's not an adequate description! Couple of things make me wary here - number 1, the fire is in at least two rooms, and number 2, it looks to have extended up the exterior to the 2nd floor and possibly into the roof.

I'm not reading this as an 1-3/4" fire. First engine for us is 1000 gallons, with another 2nd due and a 1500-gallon tanker coming in 3rd. We have this type of neighborhood in our village, which is hydranted, so I'll work it that way. First due is going to pull past the house and stretch a 2-1/2" crosslay to the first floor, and how much manpower we commit to a search is going to depend on what they find with the line.

2nd due is going to make the hydrant, and as crews arrive, they're going to a) establish RIT; b) ladder as many 2nd-floor windows as we can reach; and c) stretch a 2" crosslay to the 2nd floor.

The fact that the fire has self-vented and extended significantly prior to our arrival, coupled with the black smoke condition, leads me to doubt the conditions inside are tenable for victims on either floor, but we're definitely going to try. That being said, however, I don't plan on having guys inside for long if I don't see progress with the fire, and fast!

PPV is a possibility here, depending on what I see when I do the 360 for sizeup. In any event, I'm going to want to get some water on both areas of the fire before pressurizing the house. Right now, the interior is too hot to add fresh air to the mix without controlling the temperature first.

Mutual-aid on the 2nd alarm (which is actually the first order of business - that would be called as I'm doing the 360) is going to stretch a line for exposure protection and take over RIT, and the mutual-aid officers are going to be assigned staging and operational sectors so we have eyes on all sides.

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Permalink Reply by Ted Bownas on February 2, 2009 at 8:18pm

Hard to determine the age of the house, and thereby likely construction type, from a quick glance.

The house to the right looks pre-1950's, but the fire structure is vinyl-sided, so unless I know the area and the houses well enough to recall that it's an older house that was re-sided, I have to assume there are lightweight components under there.

In addition, I see lighter-colored smoke from the basement window well on the "D" side.

That's going to severely limit our interior operation - like I said above, if I don't see progress within a minute or two, everyone's coming out.

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Permalink Reply by Christopher J. Naum, SFPE on February 2, 2009 at 8:28pm

There are subtle clues on house vintage from our vantage point....the style of the dormer, the vinyl skin, the "gas" fireplace box on the delta side...garage style, location and roof style... (lets say it's circa 2004)

Assumptions are correct engineered systems for roof definite, floors highly probable...
Anyone see the slightly pronounced flame plume on the Charlie side?....smoke profile and color are expected...hight fuel load...we're going to need some fire flow as this is progressing-rapidly....some good comments so far...let's keep this going....lots more to talk about. If you're not sure about layout/floor plan...and you happen to see a similar home next door....ever think about a quick once over to get some bearings on movement? ...IF time and assignment permits...( this is especially useful for RIT OPS, if you're the RIT team leader.....

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Permalink Reply by Lt. Caleb French on February 2, 2009 at 8:36pm

I agree Ted, conditions are quickly deteriorating. This is going to quickly become a defensive fire if not controlled.

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Permalink Reply by Lt. Caleb French on February 2, 2009 at 8:33pm

Ted,
I agree with everything you said, and I can see that you chose to work it as a hydrant service area.

But, I chose to work it as a non-hydrant service area. Most everywhere in our service area is a mile and a half away from a hydrant or more. The reasons that I chose to pull the inch and three quarter lines are simple. A) It is the only thing that we have pre-connected. And b) since the before mentioned hydrants are so far away, water conservation is the name of the game. The nearest tankers are going to be 5-7 minutes for automatic mutual aide departments, and more than10 for 1st and 2nd alarms. I am not saying that 1 3/4 is the way to go in this situation, but this is what is going to be used in the first 5-10 minutes. As more manpower arrives they would get more 2 1/2 lines into the mix.

I totally agree that the fire conditions aren't tenable for victims on either floor. But as you stated, we are going to try.

I am not saying that you are wrong, or that I am right. All that I am saying is that no 2 departments do things exactly the same, and this is what our SOP's state, so that is what I would do.

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Permalink Reply by Ted Bownas on February 2, 2009 at 8:54pm

We had this mindset for many years...but not any more. What are we conserving water for? Put it on the fire. As much as you can, as fast as you can. The only way you're going to extinguish this fire is to get ahead of it.

And even if you put a knock on it, then lose water, you've gained a few minutes of tenable conditions for a search. When you get the water back, hit it again.

The key to putting out a fire is to put sufficient GPM's of water on it to outweigh the BTU's it's producing. Fire flow is easy enough to calculate. You have to flow more water than you have fire. If you don't, you're just going to chase it from room to room up the house until it wins.

We run twin 250' 2-inch crosslays and a 200' 2-1/2-inch crosslay on each engine, plus a 400' 2-1/2" preconnected line on the rear of both rigs. The first-due also carries a 150' 1-3/4" highrise pack on top of 400' of 2" dead-laid on the hosebed. That way we have both short and long lines immediately available, in either 2" or 2-1/2" to suit the situation.

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Permalink Reply by Lt. Caleb French on February 2, 2009 at 9:03pm

Valid points Ted.

We are going to be laying at least one 2 1/2 crosslay per engine after I bring your points up to the senior officers at our next officers meeting.

Additionally, I agree that your description is probably the better way to go in this situation. But as it stands, we will follow our SOP's to a T until they are changed : )

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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on February 2, 2009 at 10:59pm

I'm not pulling a 2.5 on this one, but it's a maneuverability issue for the two firefighters I have available for the interior, not a water volume issue. I'd rather have 150 GPM going right on this fire than 250 GPM that we might not be able to get on the main body of fire.

These houses are really cut up, tend to have stairs with one or more bends, and have tight, angled upstairs hallways. Hitting the Division 1 fire with a lot of water will help, but Engine 1's crew is going to be stuck on one level if they don't take the smaller, more maneuverable line.

We have a 2.5 preconnect with a nozzle and another one set up as a leader line with a gated wye...but they'd stay on the engine for this one.

Ben

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Permalink Reply by Lt. Caleb French on February 2, 2009 at 11:02pm

Valid points as well Ben.

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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on February 2, 2009 at 11:10pm

Caleb,

For a minute, I thought you were going to spot a portable monitor inside the front door. :-)

I'm with Alan Brunacini on this one..."We can dry out water damage, but it's pretty difficult to unburn a building."

Ben

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