Five Minutes in the Street: Making the Call...

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Marques Bush on January 17, 2009 at 3:20pm

First thing I would ask for a second alarm and have myself and two firefighters strecth and line and search for the reported trapped occupants. I would have two firefighters throwing ground ladders for bailout and rescue purposes and then they would knock down the fire on the first floor so that the second does not collapse due to fire. Hopefully by this point the second due engine and first due ladder would have arrived.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Tony P on January 17, 2009 at 6:52pm

I've tried twice with this one Chris. Trouble is, it's outside too many of our conditions! I'm just going to tie myself up in knots... I might just read the replies. Anyway, what's "Type V" construction?

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on January 17, 2009 at 7:18pm

type V is type five construction. Lightweight ordinary framing. (your local 2x4 or 2x6 dimentional lumber walls, general wood framing)

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by B Small on January 17, 2009 at 7:52pm

In other words bonfire construction.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Tony P on January 18, 2009 at 8:26pm

In this 'Type', is the type of external cladding specified? Most houses here are wooden frame with brick external cladding, a lot of older houses have overlapping horizontal wooden planks as the cladding (called weatherboard here, I can't remember the US term for it).

I know this a little of the track, but it helps me to understand the answers!

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Aaron Robbins on January 18, 2009 at 9:54pm

lol

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on January 17, 2009 at 7:28pm

With the fire through the windows and there being snow on the ground, this baby has either flashed or is close on the first floor.

Split the crew. One crew of 3, one crew of 2. First and foremost bailout ladders are needed to the second floor for firefighter ingress and egress. We have a narrow window of opportunity to make a grab due to elevated temperatures and deteriorating conditions. In essense, the craps about to hit the fan. The bailout ladders can be used to make entry due to the fire exposure to the lightweight framed deck to the second floor (crew of 3). (assuming the side we see is Side B, Side D would be the best entry point)
After the crew has entered to make a QUICK primary search, your 1000 gallons of water will offer a very little amount of protection for this crew. Getting the bulk of heavy fire knocked down will buy the interior crew a little extra time. (crew of 2) hopefully while this is in motion, your next due will be arriving on scene and hitting the plug for more water. Having the second due will assist in getting the fire knocked down and assisting in the removal of the patient(s) from the second floor.
What happens next would depend on the fire conditions and extension. If the fire has extended to the second floor, obviously we need some vertical ventilation to protect those inside.
I will wait to see if Chris posts anymore tid-0bits to go off of.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on January 17, 2009 at 7:49pm

if your wondering what I meant by there is snow on the ground, It was an observation that the windows wouldn't be open like in summertime.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Trainer on January 18, 2009 at 7:57am

This one is what it’s all about. The ½ and ½ thing has me bugged; 2 things need done quick, knock down the fire, at least a little, and secondary egress, from what I’m hearing my knowledge tells me the victims are close to the exit, right where the fire is lapping the stairs. Push the fire back in that window, then threw the downstairs door to try to hit base, it appears to be inside a ways, I got to buy at least 5 min for the guys to do a run through upstairs. I got 2 pre-cons out; I’m hesitating here, I want to send 2nd line with the guys up, but I don’t think they have the time, leave it for backup. Who to send and where??? Still got me bugged; I’m passing command and packing up, 2 best rookies on the hose, split the upstairs entry team, best man and a rook, me with the hose on the upstairs steps to protect primary egress and the other helping drag hose for the downstairs crew. I’ve made sure to tell everyone about the air horn, and what it means. We got 1000gal, that’s enough for what my goal is. This may sound a little stupid, pushing fire back in, going up those stairs, but I truly feel the victims are right their at that upstairs door.

Chris, I’m assuming, yea I used that word, It’s me plus 6 guys

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Christopher J. Naum, SFPE on January 18, 2009 at 10:53am

You are the sixth guy....( clarification...total of 6 on the company)
As you can see there are hard decisions to be made that require very quick assessment, selection and action....its tougher when you're actually in the street having to to this...right?

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Trainer on January 18, 2009 at 12:35pm

Great, me and the operator for backup; fire suppression should not go much farther in then the door, got to keep the outside stairs open till we can get a quick run through.
Tougher, kind of and understatement, wait….got to pee and get another cup.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by FETC on January 18, 2009 at 11:10am

Five Minutes in the Street - AWESOME. The first 5 minutes of this fire will determine if this is a success or failure... What a great thread Chris. Real World

Taking a look at this single picture has me wondering alot more. You are asking for tactical descisions without seeing at least three sides of the structure either upon approaching the scene or doing a good 360. So given only a one dimensional view, you are going to get my best guesstimate on intial operations.

First due with reports of people trapped, my department doesn't stop to take a hydrant anyway. Life Safety needs immediate assistance of the first due company, stopping at the hydrant is burning precious rescue time and also adds to the rapid expanding uncontrolled fire. The truck is staffed with 6 - WOW not realistic for a city response with a target of 4 minutes or less, but OK I will play with the numbers.

Enroute I would ask dispatch who was the reported caller? Was it the upstairs occupant? Is the report of a trapped occupant on floor 2 confirmed by my dispatcher? If yes, (lost contact) then I have a different tactical approach as compared to someone calling from next door and saying I think someone is trapped upstairs because someone lives up there...

So going with my dispatcher having pretty good confirmation of a victim trapped upstairs. I am asking for two ambulances be dispatched now. Upon arrival, I am taking my engine to the front, placement will be PAST the fire building hopefully near a hydrant. This gives me three side view. (We have great water supply with 90% of the city covered by hydrants) I would give a good windshield arrival report for my BC, Engine-1 off on the scene, we have fire showing from Sides A and D in a two story wood frame, two family dwelling, strike the second alarm, Engine-1 is operating in a fast attack mode, 19103 will be establishing Main Street Command.

While enroute, I would have paired up a senior firefighter with a newbie for two seperate teams. Team 1's order is to deploy a two and half from the rear of our engine, for a short 1-2 minute blitz (500 gallons max) on the first floor from the doorway/front hall or the entry mudroom. First floor is already self vented, so ventilation is not needed immediately. I see fire on Side D of this one dimensional view and it appears it is not the same front room that has vented on Side-A. So this fire is multiple rooms on floor 1. Dispatch also doesn't have a report of victims on floor-1 and the thermal insult on floor 1 is untenable for civilians. Rapid fire knock down eliminates many things like protecting the exterior stairs, future fire growth, concerns of flashover or emminent flashover upstairs, etc.

I am taking the other senior/newbie firefighter - Team 2 and they are going to stretch a 1.75" attack line up those exterior stairs and begin a search on the second floor hallway. This line is for protection only! We are not flowing water at smoke. It has a Chief Nozzle 175 gpm /75 psi and triple loaded, ease of deployment, charges quickly and less NR so a two man team can rapidly advance.

Simultaneouesly I who is "In Command" would be throwing a 24' ground ladder through two or three of the upstairs windows from the exterior of the dwelling to reduce the emminent floor 2 flashover. Reduces that issue and provides basic horizontal ventilation. The first window should be done just before the entry team makes the door. I would also leave the ground ladder in a specific window for the "rescue mode" for secondary means of egress.

The driver/operator is charging his lines and then stretching a 50' whip to the nearby hydrant. Quickly getting water to his or her engine. We train on flowing a 2.5" line and completing the water supply connection before pump cavitation. It can be done...

I myself, have to quickly step back from hands-on or I am going to lose control of my command function. I would first give an update report. Something to the effect of...

Fire Alarm from Main Street Command. We have two lines in operation, fire attack; search and rescue is underway, water supply has been established, have the next due report directly to Engine-1 and stretch a backup line off E-1 to Division-1. Have the next due Ladder report to the front, (it is wide open) and perform roof ventilation and the third due engine should lay in from a secondary hydrant and stretch a back-up line to Division-2. ALL HANDS WORKING.

Disclaimers: Now when performing the ladder work or a real command 360 size-up, if I were presented with a broken window from anywhere above on floor-2, using a class I deliver on advanced size-up techniques, this may change to a specific VES - vent-enter-search operation with the next due because I now have indications of a civilian popping a window from above without the possiblity of autoventilation.

Same with locating a victim in the hallway of the second floor by Team-2, again using my advanced size-up technique training, they would profile the victim before removal. Take a quick second to evaluate if this smoke inhalation victim is attempting to leave or heading back for other loved ones who are also trapped...

But that it is a for another day and a different class.

TCSS
FETC

▶ Reply to This

• First
• Previous
• Next
• Last