Drinking in the Fire House

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Permalink Reply by Greenman on February 6, 2008 at 9:37pm

Whoops! I've done that once or twice and had coworkers send "love letters" to the Commander, or to everyone in the unit with my name on it.

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Permalink Reply by Jacob on February 7, 2008 at 11:25am

I come from a small Vol. fire dept. and our policy is a 0 tolerence policy u show up to a call, meeting, drill, even just goto hang out you go home suspended with a 90 probation! We dont take kindly to that and on the property u will be terminated the next business meeting!

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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on February 7, 2008 at 12:40pm

Hmmmm.
Based on all of the replies so far, it sounds like everyone has a handle on drinking at the station, drinking and responding, membership conduct rules, swift/severe punishments for transgressions and a clear headed vision of service provided.
Soooooo, why are we even discussing it like it's a problem in our fire service?
According to everyone here, it isn't.
OR are there some not willing to ADMIT it? Kinda like that whole seatbelt thing.
Art

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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on February 7, 2008 at 9:33pm

Art, there are apparently still some unenlightened departments out there. Check your PMs.

JS

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Permalink Reply by Scarecrow on February 7, 2008 at 3:23pm

First thing everyone needs to remember is that there is a huge difference between having a couple of beers and being drunk. This is where this debate always gets all kinds of screwed up. Absolutely no one advocates or argues for the right to show up to a call drunk. Zero tolerance is a feel good thing that really isn't all that well defined. I can drink a single beer and it will have the same effect as taking a single pain killer. 2 beers = 2 pain killers, and so on. Also, it takes about 1 hour for the body to metabolize the alcohol from one drink. Think about that when you see those goofy rules of 8 hours, 12 hours and 24 hours from bottle to the throttle.

Studies have shown that a beer or two a day or a glass of wine are actually beneficial for your health. So why not allow some in moderation. It is actually no different than taking allergy meds or diet pills. I have actually taken allergy meds in excess and it gets the heart going as well as messes up your head. And I have seen people who take diet pills in excess. In fact, while in service in Germany, I knew of guys who would go to the German stores and buy diet drops. Instead of using 4 or 5 they would consume 80 or 90. These guys would be up for days. And really, there are all kinds of things we eat and drink that affect our ability to perform. Anything in moderation is OK. Taken to the excess is when anything becomes a problem.

And let us say no grants for firehouses with bars or alcohol on premise. Many places would simply build a small clubhouse or off-site facility and move there. Or they might just move to the local Foreign Legion, Eagles, Moose, or whatever organization and meet there.

It is more realistic to accept that people will be taking drugs (over the counter and prescription) as well drinking beverages (alcoholic, caffeinated, power drinks, etc) that will affect their performance. It is then more wise to educate the folks involved to watch for folks who are unable to perform as needed. You also need to create the attitude that you can not show up if you have taken too much of anything to the point it affects your ability to perform. In fact, I would prefer that folks who have just been through a hard workout or a hard days work stay home as well, their physical ability to perform is greatly diminished.

It's funny how we put such emphasis on no drinking but could care less that guys drive the big red trucks like they were in the Daytona 500.

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Permalink Reply by Joel C Kelley on February 7, 2008 at 9:27pm

I agree with you on every point, especially the driving issue. But I think it is not in the best interest of our profession to even paint an image that says we condone at risk behaviors such as alcohol use on duty. Our PR as an industry is one of Moral responsibility. How will we ever lower the reats of DUI in this country if we don't set an example? Not that we alone could be the example, but we can certainly be a leader in the crusade.

Okay, so the bars move off property, good! that is a step in the right direction. Nobody objects to FF's drinking off duty and off premises, it is on duty and on premises that is the problem.

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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on February 7, 2008 at 9:57pm

Joel:
Volunteer firefighters who are not on departments with a duty schedule are technically never "off duty". The only time most are "off duty" is when they are on duty at their regular jobs. That's when they won't be drinking. When they are not at their regular jobs, they might be drinking. If they drink too much, they do stupid things. Unfortunately, one of the stupid things that they do is to respond if their pager goes off, because they believe that they are sober enough to go to the call.
Just like they are lured by the drop dead gorgeous blond at the end of the bar, they are captivated at the thought of catching a big fire...sober OR drunk.
Again; the problem isn't drinking. The PROBLEM is drinking and RESPONDING.
Art

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Permalink Reply by Joel C Kelley on February 8, 2008 at 5:45pm

Once again Art, an insightful reply, I really enjoy having you in discussions, you bring a lot to the table. What you say is very true, and I think the underlying theme of the thread. We have kind of talked this topic to death, yet nobody has come forward with any real suggestions as to what if anything needs to be done. We all agree its a bad idea to respond under the influence, yet we must acknowledge that personnel in district as you outlined create the most critical level of self governance. Nobody wants to miss a big fire, but nobody wants to get their fellow responders killed either. That said, I live in a district like the one you just outlined, and we are not even allowed to wear our uniform shirts to the store if our shopping includes purchasing alcohol. It is likely there have been problems in the past, and the county has just said no. I drink my share of the cold stuff, but if I have my coctail hour, I don't have my response hour too.

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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on February 8, 2008 at 6:48pm

Joel:
And what you touch upon is a KEY component, especially in volunteer departments. The issue is one of self-control, self-discipline, regard for your other members and a self-policing, if you will.
If everyone could exercise the SAME level of common sense, drinking and responding would be a non-issue.
But, because common sense differs from person to person, it will always be the "wild card" when judging a candidate for membership. Unfortunately, I don't think there is anything out there that tests for levels of common sense.
Which is why almost every facet of our lives have to be legislated. We all have to pay for the lack of others' ability to conform to "normal" behavior.
And that could very well explain the over crowding in our jails and the punching bag that the fire service has become every time a person in uniform does something to disgrace it.
Sad, but true.
Art

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Permalink Reply by Randy on February 7, 2008 at 4:31pm

How can we ever lower LODD if departments around the country alow their members to consume alcohol of any kind on station.The temptation that "I only had one beer,so I'm OK to drive that engine with the 4-5 others lives on the line" is too great.We have to be at the top of our game at all times.If I've had a beer,I do not respond.Just have to miss that one.I'm 6'5" @ 260lbs and one beer probably would not affect my judgement,but,I'm not willing to risk the lives of my comrades.Let's say you had that one beer and you drive the truck and you are involved in an MVA that's not your fault.Nobody gets hurt,but you have to talk to the cops.Why go through the hassle of explaning"It was only one beer".Remember PTOA

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Permalink Reply by divo on February 7, 2008 at 5:07pm

if your department doesnt allow it or has strict guidelines on alcohol, consider yourself lucky. my department is a different story. we have tried to control it, but to no avail. this is mainly a problem with the old dogs who come from the old school of the firehouse being a country club enviorment. it frustrates some, including me, to no end. i have thought about getting the state or insurance companies involved. what can be done, before someone gets killed?

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Permalink Reply by justin reeder on February 7, 2008 at 7:08pm

We have a 0 tolerence for anything like that on the property.

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