Credentialing for Disaster Responders

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Permalink Reply by Randy on September 3, 2007 at 11:13pm

It is a good way for the IC to get the help needed at the incident.The thing is in Ohio firefighter 2 is 240hrs.In other states the requirement may be more.If a majority of states have 240 as their top level of training then the other states must comply.Standardization is the only way that interstate or intrastate mutual aid will work.I'm sure the feds are working on this as we type.Anyway,a database with all of our training at the tip of an IC's fingers has got to make planning at an incident a lot easier.

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Permalink Reply by Tom Kenney on September 4, 2007 at 5:10pm

All true.



However, if I can't speel it or pronounce it I get confused!! "Credentialing!!??!?!?" Holy shit, Batman, that's one hell of a word!!!

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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on September 4, 2007 at 5:40pm

This is a true story told to me by a former Lt on an old fire company I belonged to. While FDNY was working the WTC days after the terrorist incident, a crew of volunteers from a local fire department went down to provide assistance. They made their way to a staging area for new arrivals. A Deputy Chief for FDNY walked in a few hours later, and called attention. He simply stated "if you came here to be a hero, your out of luck, it will be at least a week before we can utilize any of you." Without answering questions, he promptly left. All but the folks from my former department and 3 volunteers from another department left. 1/2 hour later he came back (the deputy chief) and says wow more than I expected, lets get to work. They were given a briefing and were brought to ground zero. They worked ground zero on the bucket brigade for numerous hours. When relieved, they caught some rest. The next day, they caught a fire at the Verizon Building, and were instructed to assist in supression.

Morale of the story.......

Yes it is chaos, but in this situation (at the beginning anyway when they took help) they had lost so many firefighters, and apparatus and Still had the resources and composure to establish a place to have new people whom arrived. There are books by former FDNY people (report from ground zero is a title I don't remember the author) whom were gripped by what was happening and provided assistance. Yes they were able to write a novel, but at that time they had trapped brothers in a collapsed building. Jumping a call is something that a lot of departments have in the volunteer community. Your right, it does add chaos.
Hurricane Katrina was a devestating storm. Look at the effects of a population that is either been evacuated or has been decimated by the storms fury. Volunteers whom by your term were "free lancing" provided manpower to rescue victims, remove dead bodies, and were able to help provide meals and fresh water to the victims.

Back to the moral of this posting. I again agree theres too much negative freelancing. I agree it only adds to the burden of the situation. I also think as I pointed out twice here, that sometimes it can be extremely beneficial to have more people to help. Using a accountability system to log in anyone, and unfortunately you have to take people for their word as to the level of training, while at the same time limiting what they are enabled to do on the fire ground/ disaster location.

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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on September 4, 2007 at 5:44pm

And for the record, I have never jumped a call, or free lanced at a disaster, even though I have had the urge to numerous times.

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Permalink Reply by J Brooks on September 6, 2007 at 9:43pm

Dennis Smith wrote report from Ground Zero. Great book, all should read.

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Permalink Reply by Kevin King on September 4, 2007 at 6:31pm

How about going to the IC or staging area and checking in,then waiting along with every other professional there for a assignment.Present your Dept. ID to verify who you are.I have been on several relief efforts with FEMA in the last few years,Katrina was a three ring circus from the get go,everyone decended on N.O.,La and mostly left the outlying areas to fend for their selves.The back to back storms that hammered Florida were handled in a much more professional manner,IC and NIMS systems proved to be the way to go,now at Katrina that was FUBAR from the very start the command structure was where?I'm not sure but I think they're still trying to find them.

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Permalink Reply by Mick Mayers on September 4, 2007 at 8:35pm

I do understand the term "free-lancing" makes people wince, but when someone isn't checked into the incident command system and is working the pile (or disaster) without being plugged into the plan, I don't see how its anything but. In the old days this happened, but these days, you wouldn't go rolling into your neighboring jurisdiction for a house fire and just start pulling ceilings in a room independently, so why is that different than showing up at a disaster and just going to work without letting anyone know you are there, what your credentials are, and WHERE DO YOU NEED ME?

When we (SC-TF1) were deployed to Louisiana, we found independent groups operating in areas and either saying they were searched (to what standard?) or searching areas (and we had to go back in and re-search). It made for a lot of duplication of work when those resources could have been better used in a coordinated fashion.

What I am saying is that if you get credentialed, and the mutual aid systems that are being developed right now put in there a criteria for credentialed unaffiliated response personnel, there's going to be a better chance of you being used on my scene than if you just show up with a t-shirt saying you're with Acme Fire Department, although I still squirm a little at that thought.

If we establish a national mutual aid system, like is currently being proposed, then you will be used if you meet the criteria, your agency meets the typing criteria, and you are given a legal tasking order. I admit, Katrina was pretty out there, but if we all planned in our communities, rehearsed the plan, then actually used it when the big one came, we might actually look like we know what we are doing.

Good stuff here, folks. Keep it up; there's a lot to be said and a lot to be learned and I appreciate your perspective.

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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on September 6, 2007 at 8:12pm

just writing to bring this to the top of the forum, its a great topic and I want to read more imput

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Permalink Reply by Kevin King on September 7, 2007 at 2:34pm

I couldn't agree more,we have had the bad end of these diasters in all aspects.National level mutual aide is a great concept if they get it off the ground.

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Permalink Reply by Dan Hoey on September 6, 2007 at 8:27pm

Having gone through 12 hurricanes and of course 2001 Its a need that has many things. One thing if people want to help get off the front line help at hospitals moving people carry goods and such get help with elderly at homes or find other jobs we have to do. If they are not called to a scene they should not be there, sounds hard but its truth it only causes more troubles we all need help at times but its what help you get that matters

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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on September 6, 2007 at 8:47pm

Ok well heres my thought. If your a firefighter (and forgive me but its a focal point) in Louisiana and Hurricane Katrina is just hitting the shoreline. Your family was in the process of evacuating, but the winds have knocked cell phones out of commission. You now have ZERO contact with your family. Now imagine all the firefighters that were on duty. Are your wife and kids ok, are they hurt, dead? Now have them focus on their job. Sometimes (like in this case the area was completely overwhelmed from southern LA all the way through Mississippi) It is better to have more helping hands. Yes I think there must be some check in/check out accountability process. Yes I agree that some of these volunteers from all walks of life should be paired with seasoned and experienced folks who know what their doing. You wouldn't put them inside any life compromising situations. Granted once Marshal Law is in effect, they should be in the designated safe areas while the night happens. During Katrina, The Coast Guard, Firefighters, EMS and Police officers all converged on the scene to provide assistance. (oops only to Baton Rouge) What about the folks in Mississippi whom are under water witht heir homes in tatters literally? The little reported story was of the people who did take personal watercraft be it a raft, a boat or canoe and helped to rescue citizens in peril, reguardless of race or age. These people weren't paid a dime. They just did what nature told them to do, and thats to help. Again, I am not trying to discredit anything anyone has said, I just like to play the devils advocate and to get a new edge on a great topic.

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Permalink Reply by Dan Hoey on September 6, 2007 at 9:49pm

I agree with you on the help, but trying to get this help organized is a big challenge. When Hurricane Andrew hit so much time was spent helping those who should not have been there and while things have changed and using local people and equipment is always a great tool Boats heavy equipment people who know the way around, after hurricane Charlie we put a local person trained or not in each escue unit and ambulance because of the lack of street signs and such as guides. No one should be ever looked down on for helping but if public safety is paramount we have tomake sure we keep those who are not trained safe and away from unknown trouble.

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