Cutters,Spreaders and Hydro tools,,, the second time around!

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Permalink Reply by CGFD45 on February 22, 2008 at 2:50pm

I am a certified Hurst instructor, so I should promote their systems. However, in the last year I have trained alot of departments on the Holmatro systems.
I personally think they are better then Hurst. They have a one hose system, not a two hose system. Not to mention the power units are much smaller, yet the psi is more making your tools operate that much faster!

Lastly the tools are much lighter then the Hurst tools.

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Permalink Reply by Bob Trask on February 22, 2008 at 4:07pm

Here in HIghland, we use the Amkus Tool. We have had Amkus for better than 20 yrs and have not had any issues. Most of the companies around us have or had Hurst. Some are now switching over to the Holmatro or Amkus. I have had the honor of using all of the different tools, and I personally prefer either the Amkus or the Holmatro over all the others. The new technology of Holmatro with the Core Technology Hose is awesome. I still believe that the Amkus feels lighter while using and also feels more natural.

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Permalink Reply by John Mc. on February 22, 2008 at 4:16pm

Nothing against hurst... my company uses Lucas (which i believe was bought out by hurst not 100% sure) but if you can find Lucas i love them. They are lighter than Hurst, i trained with Hurst during Extrication I and they were very heavy and when i trained with the Lucas the size and weight difference were noticable considering i could work longer with Lucas. Hope you get some good ideas but nothing against Hurst... amazing tool but the Lucas get the job done and are lighter.

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Permalink Reply by Ted Bownas on February 22, 2008 at 5:08pm

We switched from Hurst to an Amkus Ultimate system in 2004 when we got our heavy rescue - the hydraulic pump runs right off the PTO - no electric or gas pumps. It also powers the 30KW generator set, too. So far, so good - the tools are 1/2 the weight of the old Hurst tools, 'cause they're all aluminum. We also run a portable power unit with a combi-tool on the second-due engine as a backup and for mutual-aid standby, so we can run a simple extrication if we need to.
I've heard good things about the new single-hose systems, but haven't had one in my hands to look at yet.

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Permalink Reply by Marc Hansen on February 24, 2008 at 11:40pm

We use holmatro(the 2 hose style) and have for years with no major problems. In working and training with other depts. hurst is much heavier to work with, though their gold series is a step in the right direction and hyd. fluid for holmatro is cheaper and not a hazmat problem if you have a leak. These 2 are the systems that most dept's around us run so can only compare those 2 for you

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Permalink Reply by Kevin on February 25, 2008 at 9:08am

I am curious as to being a "certified" Hurst instructor? I also went to Hurst for their instructors class, but was never "certified" as an instructor. Holmatro does have a "two hose system" althought the second hose is buried into the outside hose which in turns hides the "high pressure" hose from inspection and routine care. Hurst also has small power units that can actually run the tools without issues and still maintain the safety backups of the "dump valves". PSI does not make tools work faster... flow rates and smaller cylinders make tools run faster. I would also question "much lighter"... how about some tools are lighter, power untis are a somewhat heavier. Holmatro make a good tool...

LUKAS is owned by IDEX... and is now called HURST HP (high pressure). A lot of the same technology and performance is now found in both the Hurst and Hurst HP. Lower pump pressure in the Hurst but same results. Twin line hose with the Streamline single coupler. Single coupler system that has no "ball and slot" to line up and actually works without any issues... unlike the "other single coupler" available.

Amkus... half the weight??... then half the performance abnd durability as well!

When did "mineral based hydraulic fluid" not become a potential haz mat incident? Isn't it petrolium fluid based fluid... like oil and gas. Doesn't it also conduct electricity, as does the steel braid hose connecting it? It is cheaper... also not as safe as the synthetic fluid that is in the Hurst system.

This is my trip to firefighternation... glad I stopped in to see what is going on. Some misinformation has been posted and I hope to have cleared some of it up... although we all believe what we want to believe.

Stay safe guys...

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Permalink Reply by Sean Crotty on February 25, 2008 at 9:16am

Mike,
From the other side of NY- hello. Recently many departments around my area were awarded Fire Act Grants for Rescue tools. Many researched what tools do what, and what better fit thier needs.
I think a few important things to remember:
-Your dealer will be what will set it apart from the rest in showing you their tools strengths, and avoiding their weakness.
-Service is important- and what they will do for you when your tool needs service
-Customer service from the main office
-Education after delivery
-Do they remember you after the tool is delivered and being used?

In my company, I was involved in the heavy part of the grant writing and research for what we needed. Many Fire Shows, Trade Shows, visiting other departments that use the tools, and trying to sort through the "this is better" without meat to back it up.

If you get the chance in May- go to the Harrisburg Fire Expo. I think it is somewhat close to you. All the major players will be there. Go from booth to booth, saturating yourself in information- BUT- look at their product info first to develop some important features and questions specific to each tool.
All the research will pay off in the end.
Dealers control the ebb and flow of their merchandise. You have a strong dealer presence in one region- let's say Amkus- they take care of you like gold and the salesman in your area is everyone's friend and is well respected, well then guess what will be the popular fit.
We have Amkus in our company, and for many reasons. A few are:
-Interoperable with mutual aid departments Amkus Systems
-Mutual Aid Depts can seamlessly transition in on tool if needed- without the element of a learning curve
-Power
-Options we desired
-Reputable Sales/Service Local
-Loaner tools when ours are serviced
-Accessible to Local Instructor who will come out and train with us
-Lightweight
-Innovative
-Family Owned and Operated
-Customer Service A1

In my end of the research, I was impressed with Amkus and Holmotro. I am sure every loyal user will argue that theirs is better, but I can only offer you the experience I had with my research, which is what I think you were looking for.

Good luck. Invite all the prospective tool salesmen out (Different Nights- It will turn into Jerry Springer if they are all there together), get some cars and let each one show you what they can do.

Always ask the question- Why should I buy your product? Let them tell you why, then you can tell them, well that is now what I am looking for.

Take care

Sean

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Permalink Reply by ASSTCHIEF173 on February 25, 2008 at 10:30am

Get a demo on halmatro CORE , My dept. just purchased a very nice set of tools for about the same price that you stated. We got a power unit,cutter,spredder,combi tool,and ram,2- 50ft. sections of hose and some other small items. CORE is single line operation powerunit to tool. try it out works great for us.

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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on February 25, 2008 at 4:31pm

A year ago we had an all-day demo with reps from Amkus, Holmatro, TNT and Genesis. For some reason Hurst wasn't there.

We had several vehicles set up and conducted a number of evolutions with each tool set. One vehicle was a retired school bus, and we set about cutting out major portions of the bus side walls. Of the different cutters we used, only the Amkus failed to cut the safety posts within the bus walls. (It was kind of embarrasing for the manufacturer's rep.)

Going in I was leaning toward Amkus since that's what we have been using for the past 15 years, however I was impressed by the Holmatro CORE and their cutters.

After the demo all of our members rated the tools on various points - weight, location and feel of controls, power unit weight, and so on. The result: We chose the TNT tool set based on majority.

Actually, any of them are good, although the Amkus cutter kind of baffled me. And we didn't try out the Hurst for some reason, although I believe they are still heavier than the competition. Nothing like the original Hurst tool - gad what a beast!

We also purchased the Res Q Jack system for vehicle stabilization, for what that's worth.

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Permalink Reply by Ted Bownas on February 25, 2008 at 6:33pm

Have you played with the Res-Q-Jacks yet? We use Turtle-style high-density plastic cribbing for almost all our MVA's requiring stabilization. We also carry Paratech struts for larger vehicles and cars on their sides, etc. We want to add a jack-style strut that's quicker and easier to deploy than the Paratech struts - they're a P.I.T.A. to assemble and set up. So far we like the looks of the Res-Q-Jacks, and we'll probably order some when the new budget year starts.

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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on February 25, 2008 at 10:35pm

Yes, we have played with them, and just a few months ago finally made room for them on the rescue pumper. Actually we had to wait for our new truck to come in so we could shift equipment around. We have to play with them some more so that all members are up to speed, but so far we haven't needed to use them yet.

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Permalink Reply by Drew Tenhundfeld on February 25, 2008 at 8:54pm

When looking at tools take everything into consideration like the balance and preasures of the tools. If your on a longer than normal extrication a balance tool may make or break the firefighters ability to last on that scene. When having demo's, ask about the preasure that the tools are tested to also the power unit. Have the rep add a gauge to show those preasures. Some sales reps will increase pump pressure to get a better performance at a demo. The preasures coming from the pump should read 10,500 according to NFPA 1936.

I come from a department that uses the old Hurst tools and looking to up-grade. I am also a rep for Amkus Rescue Systems. When trying to sell a tool I start out with the safety features of the tools and balance for the user. On a recent detail we called in a neighboring department in. This dept. is equipt with Holmatro. The first time using the tool I was impressed, and also there was things I didn't like about the tool.

One other thing to look for is how much room will a tool need to operate, are the hoses or hose in the way. What type of operating handle better suits your department.

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