Explorer's rideing in the trucks/packing up

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Permalink Reply by Bernard Hendrick on December 21, 2007 at 4:48pm

We had the Junior program 1 time and thats all it took to understand it didnt belong in our dept. We had juniors tryin to jump on the first out truck, or members that wasnt up to the proper training trying the same thing. It took some arguing from the "Ole Timers" to get the officers to realise what was going on and that we needed to correct it. Its great to have young ppl who r interested in the program, but they also need to understand the dangers of it, and the first out trucks need to have experienced members on it. They can always come on the 2nd or support unit. Theres always something to do on the scenes other than being right in the Hot Zone.

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Permalink Reply by Cody Scott on December 21, 2007 at 5:30pm

I understand your frustration here. As a Probie in our house, you don't ride the First out truck. You don't have the experience. Training or not. In our department anyone with less then 1 year on can't be on the IA team. Our second truck is used a lot and members with less then 1 year are able to get on that truck. It's so they get action but are not right in the hot zone. Don't take it to heart when they tell you not to get on because your an explorer. It's a safety reason. In a short time you'll be that firefighter in the back and on the pipe. But tell then, just learn what you can to make yourself better.

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Permalink Reply by Ezra IMO 34 Truck on December 21, 2007 at 7:02pm

Well Chris,

I too have been there, and I know it is frustrating however, where some officers are not to keen on allowing Jr members on the trucks, some are and are not allowed. I have encountered both in the 6 years that Ihave been involved in the fire dept. I am unsure of the laws governing the fire service in your state and locality, but I can give you a little insight on what may be the issue, a major problem that the Jr members in my locality experianced were legal. There were a few members who were fully qualified with Firefighter I&II, however legislation would not allow them to ride a fire apparatus due to age restrictions, including wildland apparatus. My suggestion to you would be to research the legislation for your state and locality, your bylaws and look into the insurance issues for your perticular department. REMEMBER be intelligent, not "smart". Dont try to prove someone wrong just pose the question and stand your ground though if you are incorrect dont sweat it, you've learned the law, can explain it to your fellow firefighters with it in writing to back you up, and our job will be around for a long long time. You will get plenty, just stick with it and don't get discouraged.

Ezra

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Permalink Reply by Aaron on December 21, 2007 at 7:26pm

Having jrs on the fire truck is ok if there is room when the truck is getting ready to take off. The only problem i see is juniors packing out. Your called a jr for a reason, because your there to learn in a safe way and place. As far as i know there is no law against juniors on the fire ground helping, but it is the worst thing to have a junior put on a pack and fight fires, do searches and try to help people when they themselves are in a learning program/ enviorment. As a former Jr. Advisor, jrs should be on a support truck helping firefighters in rehab, or getting cylinders to and from firefighters who need cylinders for their SCBA. Dont be the jr that goes to the fire station and takes up a seat on the fire truck, and starts trouble when an active member tells you to go to the next out engine or support unit. Your in this field to help people. do so by letting the firefighters get on scene and save propety and life. All your training will fall into place when you turn 18, until then learn by asking questions and watching from a safe distance.

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Permalink Reply by Jenn on December 21, 2007 at 8:46pm

When I was a junior we were tested over and over again until the advisor of our program thought we were ready to ride the apparatus. we had to know our ropes and knots, how to hook up hydrants, how to change out bottles quickly, we had to learn where every single thing on every peice was because after all....you are go-fors (go for this go for that) we were trained like our senior fire fighters were. Until we proved worthy, we didnt see a seat of any truck... I've since then moved up and became a senior fire fighter, and unfortunately do not have the pleasure of riding with juniors anymore because our juniors are no longer aloud to ride due to insureance purposes....consider yourself lucky, even though you might not be getting on all the time, you still have that chance to go. I wouldnt be the fire fighter i am today if i didn't ride the trucks when i was a junior, and i didnt get on everytime. my best advice to you would be to just let it roll of your shoulders, your young still. you still have your whole career ahead of you to get on that truck. getting upset about it towards your senior guys is only going to make them think that your to immature to be on that truck.

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Permalink Reply by Paul Henry on December 21, 2007 at 9:16pm

The company I'm with just started a mentor program in which I'm in gharge of.All I can say is that we have all been there.The main concern that we have with are jrs. is that they follow is the child labor laws from our state.The jrs we have are not very happy about that because if you read the child labor laws for firefighting it states what they can and can't do.Our company is trying to set it up also that no jrs go on our first out piece for structure fires,because our first out piece is the truck and to be on that you have to be able to do ventilation and if you are a jr you can't even operate the truck.So we are getting them to ride on one of the two engines to the scene because one of them has to go to the water supply and that is where you get the experiance of how to fill tankers or suppling other trucks.Also if any other senior members read this and you have any ideas that I can use in our mentoring program that works for you feel free to pass some ideas off to me and if you would like to send me some emails I'll give you my email address just ask me for it.

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Betz on December 21, 2007 at 9:19pm

I used to teach a certified class just like adults take in firefighting. I had Juniors and Seniors in high school that rode with us all the time. We didn't let them do any active firefighting, but lots of outside stuff. To answer your question - NO, we didn't kick them out if we had open seats. We are full-time, and we usually have room for them somewhere on the first couple trucks out, which leave together on the first alarm. I think the issue needs to be decided by the "powers that be", and then communicated that this is how it goes. That way, you all know the policy and shouldn't have to live with individual opinions or decisions when the tones drop.
Also, even at the end of the year when my students had passed and were certified, we still kept the same policy. Two good reasons - 1 they were not full time union guys and gals and it kept those kind of issues from coming up, and 2 - they had no experience and still were not ready to go the work with us. Keep your chin up and stick with it, you will be kickin' butt soon enough.

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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on December 21, 2007 at 10:27pm

All I can say is, it's not you personally that is the problem, it's the law. And the department SOPs if they exist.

Last summer we changed our SOPs to prohibit Juniors from riding on the apparatus to calls. This was in response to recent reviews of child labor laws, insurance policies as well as what is mandated by state laws. In the end we followed the advice of our lawyer and made the changes.

It's a tough thing. On the one hand, I want our fire department to do the right thing by the law and to provide a safe environment for our Junior members. On the other, I don't want to see juniors become discouraged and give up on firefighting.

If you have read some of the other threads (like music while responding) you have to admit that there is a recurring theme: Safety. It's Job 1 of the officer in charge to not only enforce the rules but also insure the safety of all members. Particularly the younger ones, so they can grow older and one day take over for the old timers.

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Permalink Reply by jake on December 26, 2007 at 9:26am

I'm a jr now and we can go on anything but mutial aid

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Permalink Reply by Nukefirefighter on January 16, 2008 at 8:29pm

Ezra IMO 34 Truck is still a rookie himself hes only been in a paid status not quite 1 1/2 years....lol

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Permalink Reply by mck306john on January 16, 2008 at 9:07pm

in west virginia, state law says that jr firefighters cant be on the first out truck, or on any emergency vehicle that is responding with lights and sirens on to a call... They also can not operate lights or sirens, hand-lines, pack-up, interior or exterior operations, along with high pressure tools and operate a pump... the only thing there allowed to do on a fire scene is Coffee Wagon, GO-FER, and help with clean up- overhaul once the scene is safe.... my dept has jr's but they know that rules are rules, our jr's are only allowed o/s in our personell carrier and once they get o/s they are to report to our main engine and stay with the pump operator, it seams to work out good for us, they then become a Go-Fer for the pump operator and OIC... thats just how we run things...

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Permalink Reply by Moe Brewer on January 21, 2008 at 11:31am

Hello Chris,

Our department just went thru similair discussions about Jr fire fighters. We are not a very big department around 20 members total with several of us that are rookie's. The Jr's are not allowed on the engines or tankers period, not questions no arguments. The main concern is the liablity issue of a CHILD riding in a emergency vehicle running emergency traffic. This not meant to slam you but you have no idea what it take to operate a vehicle runnig emergency traffic and risks we take doing it. The liblity of having a child on board is insane to take that type of risk.

Our Jr's have to go to the scene Non-Emergency POV, period with a PARENT on scene also. But if it's a wreck on the interstate they not allowed on scene period. But they have responablities they take pride in doing. Sometimes we have 5 to 6 members make it to a scene most of the time it's less. They help chance packs out, take care of paper work , log members on scene, and help run the rehab station when we require one.

I think you will find that doing the little things to help will make you a more rounded in your experience.. I think you being there to take care of the little things will make you more welcome at the scene and less of a burden. Take a more active role in the operations of the tanker or engine... learn the role of the scene saftey officer... thats what one of our Jr's does... she's is back at a safe distance but has a radio and is copying everything down and has a digital tape recorder to make a copy of all the radio traffic on scene. We can go back and review what we did how we did it and make a great training tool.

Trust me, you not being first on scene not a big deal, you can do lots of things to help besides being on the first engine there.

have a safe day, Moe

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