Who should be in charge of the apparatus while responding to the scene?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Firefighter Nation WebChief on September 2, 2008 at 10:04pm

Just out of curiosity, but shouldn't an officer ensure the crew is behaving itself while the driver focuses on driving? Was the driver distracted, what actions inside the cab contributed to the accident? Seems a little info. is needed to really respond to this ... If speed was a factor, then how could anyone other than the driver be to blame?

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Drew Tenhundfeld on September 2, 2008 at 10:22pm

This happen going through an intersection. The crew was behaving. The sensor didn't change the light when a emergency vehicle was approaching. I feel that the officer should have slowed the driver down when entering the intersection. The problem that I have is that the officer like to put their coat and scba on while going down the road. The reason I bring this up, I met the other engine at an intersection. The person riding in the OIC seat was getting dressed. Which blocked my field of view to see if anything was coming. After the detail the Lt. and Capt from the other station gave me a verbal reprimand for not making sure the intersection was cleared before proceeding. Your opinion please.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Firefighter Nation WebChief on September 3, 2008 at 12:16pm

In the case of the first instance....unless the driver is driving like a maniac, seems like the Officer would have more than enough to worry about providing directions, listening to the radio, getting himself ready than to worry about whether a red light changed to green on a sensor....the driver is responsible for the vehicle.

In your second case....if your officer is putting on his coat obstructing your view, you need to work that out with them and tell 'em to quit blocking the freakin window....and if you can't see stop the fire truck until you can

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by fireman1049 on February 5, 2009 at 4:52pm

Sir, on our Dept it is our S.O.P. that everyone has their gear on befor getting into the engine.. NO EXCEPTIONS. Mainly due to safety for the crew as well as for the people we are to protect and serve.. Aside from the fact that the officers on my dept are real sticklers when it comes to safety.. Which i am glad of.. it promotes safe work practices while going to the scene, on the scene, on the way back to the station, and in the station..
So i dont understand why an officer would be getting dressed on the way when 1) it blocks the field of view. 2) why did the driver even move the truck if people were still getting dressed?
im all for safety first for everyone..

back to the main topic.. was this driver certified to opperate that truck? did he take a driving course for opperating a truck while responding with lights and sirens? Here in ohio it is mandatory that anyone who is going to opperate any apparatus take a driving course and be certified to opperate it. otherwise if u are not certified to drive it, u dont opperate it.. no exceptions at least on my dept the chief enforces this issue..Mainly due to all the accidents involving driver error. the insurance is also a big pusher for making sure the driver is certified also... as mentioned, not all the facts are know about this incident..

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Brian D. on September 3, 2008 at 4:19pm

If you are the Driver/Engineer, the driving is your responsibility. Your Officer can give direction, but common sense is also called for. For example if your Officer told you to run the red light. That would be an unlawful order. As the operator of that vehicle, you need to know right from wrong, regardles of what your officer says! And like Dave said, if he's blocking the window and you can't see, stop the freakin' truck!

"The problem that I have is that the officer like to put their coat and scba on while going down the road."

It also sounds like seatbelts aren't being worn. C'mon guys it's 2008!

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Ronnie Neely (DOC) on February 15, 2009 at 9:51pm

If you can not see then it is your responcibility as the engineer to tell the officer or OIC to sit back and or give you the site you need to see. You as the engineer, have controle of the vehicle and you are responcible for getting the guy's to and from the scene safly. Next time tell the OIC sit back I can't see. He will have to get dressed there at the scene.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Steve on March 25, 2009 at 1:45pm

We are getting away from the point, you as the apparatus driver are responsible for clearing you intersections which means coming to a complete stop or a speed at which you can stop in the event of another vehicle coming to the intersection. From what I understand the sensor didnt change the light so you were going to run the light without stopping. At no point is that acceptable, yes your officer should have said "hey, the light is red, stop idiot" But the engine company officer is responsible for a lot of things the last thing he should have to worry about is wether or not his driver is being wreckless. Yes there was the issue of him getting dressed while enroute, but on the same token you as the driver should not have even released the brake until you were sure that everyone was seated and belted. Even if your officer told you to do so you were still liable for anything that happened. The best response in that situation is "Sir, I cannot move the apparatus until everyone is belted in." Even if he takes it up the chain of command you aren't in the wrong because you would be doing what's in the best interest of the safety of your crew. Bottom line, yes for MOST and I say most cautiously the Driver/Operator should be in control of whats happening prior to and during the response. Check your adrenaline, slow down, arrive safely. You do no one any good if you never get there.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by John Malcom on February 15, 2009 at 12:17am

It has been tried in court, the driver has FULL responsibility. Including telling the officer to sit down put on your seat belt!

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Wes on September 2, 2008 at 10:17pm

Your driving is your responsibilty no matter if the officer tells you to do something its your DL not the officers and the apparatus is your responsibilty if you are behind the wheel thats the law in any state im pretty sure.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Drew Tenhundfeld on September 2, 2008 at 10:25pm

How do you get that point across to the officer?

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by lutan1 on September 2, 2008 at 10:35pm

Until the vehicle arrives at scene, the ultimate responsibility has to lay with the driver- they control the accelarator, brakes and sirens. The driver is the one who will be charged by Police...

Once on scene then the Officer can dictate vehicle positioning, etc

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Jay Nicholson on September 3, 2008 at 10:56am

SOP/SOG should clearly define resposibilities. if your dept. doesn't have any, do it sooner than later.

▶ Reply to This

• First
• Previous
• Next
• Last