red line at car fires

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by strtcopr on August 10, 2008 at 12:12am

Sweet.....If you're buying the cheese steaks..you can use a garden hose..i dont care.When are the Phil's gonna win one again?...Although I dont like to admit it..1980 was a long time ago

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Damon Dyer on August 10, 2008 at 8:32am

A triple lay line can be deployed just as fast as a red line . We have timed that because of a conversation just like this .

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on August 10, 2008 at 10:34am

Stop arguing about which hose.
Just like Billy Martin; just like Lou Piniella...
KICK SOME DIRT ON IT!
TCSS.
Art

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Frank Svitak on August 10, 2008 at 11:42am

While widely frowned apon, I have seen car fires put out with less than 100 gallons of water with a booster line, while others are hit with 1.5 or 1.75 hand lines using way over 600 gallons and even over 1000 on a pick up truck. What I really think is missing in the whole controversy is the proper fire stream. We have to remember that vehicle fires are a compartment fire. Hit that fire with about 50 gallons of water using the proper stream & you have now created well over 2000 gallons of steam, which in a compartment will extinguish the fire. Many times the improper use of larger hand lines throws the thermal balance so far out of wack that you need too much water to put out the fire. Let the thermal balance work for you and create the steam. You will use less water and be back in alot less time. I have personaly used a booster line on a car that was totaly involved. I adjusted the booster nozzle to a broken stream with about a 30 degree pattern, aproached the car, turned on the nozzle. Just as you would with a room and contents fire, I gave the nozzle about 3 rotations, shut down and backed off. The water had hit the hot metal, created alot of steam, and put the fire out. All that was left was overhaul. I used so much water, that the tank gauge still read full. I could have done this with a larger line, but I would have wasted so much water. Again, I personaly feel that it really is not the size line you use on vehicle fires, as much as using the proper fire stream & techniques to attack the fire. Of course, the larger the vehicle, the larger the line you have to use, but any line can be effective on a standard size car if used properly.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by strtcopr on August 10, 2008 at 12:18pm

I'm not saying you cant put one out with a booster...like its physically impossible...you can. I was saying that its not recommended by the ''professionals''- in the lectures,the trainings etc..Its a car fire....total loss before the tones go off..99% of the time. I'm not worried about saving the car-goner! worried about saving our own.AND I'm getting philly cheese steaks so i am staying as quiet as possible.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Damon Dyer on August 10, 2008 at 6:51pm

Way to go guys we are still family and thats the way it should be.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Rescue Engine 2923 on December 15, 2008 at 9:14pm

Simple.

1 3/4 bumper line, 'nuff said.

Man up and pack hose, booster reels are a thing of the 70s.Sure they are good for spot fires

But I'll never pull a booster on a working car fire. Dumpster fire, IF it's a small one, possibly but if she's rolling 1 3/4 bumper line.

Train hard, go back over, then train and retrain!

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Captain Busy on December 15, 2008 at 10:05pm

How's this for a tactics twist... Yes, the use of a SCBA is imperative for the firefighter going in to attack the fire, which may or may not require a 1.5-inch line that we carry on the passenger side of our rigs (out of traffic) and pre-plumbed as an attack line. We call it the Freeway Line. While the firefighter is donning his or or SCBA, the Captain can pull and flake red line (uphill, upwind, etc.) enabling the firefighter to grab the nozzle and attack the fire, in the smoke... but only if absolutely necessary. If there seems to be a lot of smoke to contend with, I think it's wise to consider pulling out your blower and pushing the smoke away from the vehicle so the firefighter can see what they are doing. To be honest, we have pre-plumbed foam that can be dialed into a pretty frothy discharge. Unless it's a raging vehicle threatening brush against the side of the road, I tend to prefer the redline because it's quick and easy to use and more importantly put away. The less time I spend on the highway, the better I'll feel. It's a subjective call, dependent upon potential, size and type of vehicle (corvettes for example become huge tiki torches and VW's have magnesium blocks (at least they do in the older models... what a surprise when you hit this with H20...).

Working together as a team when you are on an engine company is number one here. Keeping yourself safe, and using appropriate PPE is next, staying out of the smoke as much as possible. Dermal exposure when physically "in the smoke" is probably not a great idea with absorption through the skin being one of the ways toxins can enter your body. So, consider using a blower in conjunction with whatever handline you choose to put the wet stuff on the red stuff... : )

Mike

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Gordon "Gopher" Runer on December 17, 2008 at 8:04pm

The magnesium sure makes for a good fireworks show!

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Tony P on December 15, 2008 at 11:35pm

I missed this thread somehow, thanks for waking it up Mike. When I saw the title, I thought, what's wrong with using red hose? After all, we have red hose in 20mm 38mm and 64mm diametres - plenty of choice. Then I read further. And confusion endeth. Our high pressure reel has black hose. That line is the fastest line to deploy that we have, after all, you can charge it as soon as the crew start moving, it isn't going to tie itself in knots like lay-flat will. The HP gets used for everything, cars, bins, houses. Please don't tell me that reels won't put out house fires, I'd have to tell you to look at London Fire Brigade photos to see that it really does work. As was stated earlier - it's not how big it is, but how you use it that matters. (Hmm - I've seen that saying used elsewhere too)

If your SOP's state that you must use something else, then do so. If your own experience tells you to use something else, then do so. If you simply hate the idea of a reel being used, then don't use one! But please don't say they don't work, there are literally thousands of fires all over the world that are attacked and beaten using reels.

Our HP reel has 75 metres of 20mm ID hose with an Akron on the end of it. We usually run it at around 2500-3000 kPa. Use an online converter if you don't understand metric and want to know what that is in imperial measurement. Today I'm feeling lazy.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Jenny Holderby on December 16, 2008 at 12:15am

I miss booster reels. We used to have a quick response vehicle and it was wonderful on car fires. It had a foam system as well and a high pressure nozzle. That booster reel was a life saver on many occassions.
I don't agree with them being a thing of the 70s. We used ours on our 1985 FMC Roughneck AND on our 1987 quick response. The problem with that truck was that it was overloaded to the 9s & it was too hard on the engine & chasis. (hindsight is 20-20) But the booster reel was a good idea.

Booster reels have their place but you have to KNOW when to use them and when to leave them on the truck. Taking them off the truck first and hitting a fire hard and fast with it while an engine is setting up works too. There are a lot of things you can do with a booster reel and they do work very well when used properly. It is the same effect of using a 1 1/2 when you need a deluge gun. Both have their place. The guy using them has to have a clue of what he is doing or someone will get hurt. Same as just about anything else in this business.

We use hand lines on car fires.

I agree with SCBA being an issue. Where there is smoke, there are carcinogens. We eat too much smoke in small doses still.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Tony P on December 17, 2008 at 7:24am

Thanks Jenny, you made me realise I'd forgotten something. We can put Class B foam through our HP reel.

▶ Reply to This

• First
• Previous
• Next
• Last